And now where do you stand?

Match day threads here used to run 20 pages. Now they're 4 or 5. The passion is gone. After a decade of false dawns indifference is now the norm.

Wenger's starting to remind me of Connie Mack, who managed until he was 87 and senile. Of course Mack owned the team, so there was no way to fire him. Wenger theoretically could be fired, but Kroenke and the board seem content, even if the fan base does not.

 

Again: Until ST sales start to slump, Kroenke isn't lifting a finger.

 

This.

The board is thrilled with the money coming in, the stadium sold out, etc. so there's no motivation to try to win the league or the champ's league.

 

It was me. I started following Arsenal after becoming disillusioned with football and sports in general. I felt the beautiful game should inspire us and not simply be another excuse to divide and exclude people.

The things that make Arsenal stand apart from other big clubs in the football spectrum is a special idealism along with that unique relationship between manager and club. Take those away and it becomes just another hollow pursuit for titles that gets easily forgotten over the summer anyway.

Now I get that prestige attracts many fans and that they're bored by a dry spell, but for me there's more to it than titles. Rather than just hunting for the Glory, I love the "Story" of how we try to get there. Hiring a short-term manager to come in and win a title just doesn't have the same magic as watching a battered underdog pull itself together to get back into the fight.

Now patience should have its limits, of course. If the internal situation gets as toxic as it did with Mou at Chelsea or if relegation becomes a real threat like with Ranieri at Leicester City, then I'd say it's time to go. Otherwise, it seems meaningless to sacrifice the integrity that makes Arsenal stand out from other clubs just to become another soulless enterprise collecting cups.

 

I can respect that, but I have a slightly different perspective. I think that, no matter how one perceives the club, the standard at a club like Arsenal should be one that demands excellence. And that hasn't been the case for a while. The issue, to me, isn't that we don't win the league. I can accept that. What I can't accept is making the same mistakes over and over again, and a glaring failure to address key weaknesses. Especially since we've run out of excuses.

 

I, in no way, mean this as offensive to you and your ideals.

However, I find it so ironic to use the work integrity to describe Arsenal.

The club does the minimum to make money, their goals are not to win but to place. They have exorbitant ticket prices without producing quality to deserve these prices. This is indicative of the man who owns, and sets the culture of Arsenal, Stan Kroenke who screwed over the city of St. Louis with removing their team to move to California. Screwed over Colorado by not leading the Avalanche with resources, the same for the Denver Nuggets. He is someone who gained the majority of his wealth by marrying into the Wal-Mart family who has screwed over it's workers with no benefits and left the tax payers to pay for their social services. He continues to try and exploit everyone he can.

Arsene Wenger, the man who cheated on his wife and loves to mock fans with his arrogant comments does not qualify for the word integrity. He claims to be producing artistic football but watching his team, and yes, his team is showing how hollow this claim is. All things Arsenal these days can be attributed to the two of them. And neither appears to value winning or valuing the fans which is the foundation of integrity in sports.

 

I've said it before - next season is not the start of rebuilding. Next season is all about managing the fallout from this season. We are not in a similar position to Chelsea where a new manager and a few new faces will make everything good as new. This team needs a complete overhaul on and off the field, or we are going to turn into Liverpool where we turn in one decent season every 5 years and are constantly rebuilding.

Saddling a new manager with what will essentially be a disaster limitation role is a recipe for failure. We could get an interim manager to get us through next season, but allowing Wenger to walk away from this dumpster fire he started is letting him off too easily. It's not like he can make things worse. Give him a 12 month contract with explicit instructions that his only job is to prepare things for his successor.

 

I can't see his arrogance accepting that proposal.

 

Then he can leave, but we should be looking for an interim manager to see out next season. Anyone making plans to rebuild or bounce back the way Chelsea did is deluding themselves. The mess Wenger created is so much bigger than himself. He burned up a ton of resources, locked up wages in contracts that should never have been renewed, and failed to really set up options for the future so we need to essentially rebuild the entire squad without the resources or prestige we have grown accustomed to.

Throwing a Tuchel, Allegri, or whoever in to this situation is just asking to fail. I guess we could take a short cut and have Usmanov buy the club and fund spending up to the maximum allowed under FFP, and in that situation - Wenger needs to be fired so quickly he is denied access to the locker rooms after the final game. As things stand, just firing Wenger and expecting someone to come in and turn things around is asking to fail.

 

I didn't vote either, but obviously I agree with Pook.

Also, how much will Alexis cost? You can keep one of the dogs.

 

Wenger needs to see out the season and leave. So long and thanks for all the memories of those first 9 seasons...

 

Thank God for small favors then because I don't want him accepting it either.

 

I know that a lot of fans feel this way and I don't mean to disparage them or you but I just don't get it.

Aside Jack Warner-style bags of money being passed around, I think Arsenal is the most corrupt major institution in football. It's like Arsenal is the AIG of football, where Arsene, Gazidis and the players are siphoning away outrageous money, Kroenke is getting his from the upward valuation of the club, and everybody else is getting stiffed. And the club's PR machine is spouting meaningless platitudes to hold on to the status quo.

I appreciate the idea that the fans want Arsenal to represent some class in the sometimes tawdry world of football. If that's the case the first thing we need to do is sack Wenger.

 

Apathy. I remembered minutes ago that Arsenal played today because I saw an Arsenal shirt in my closet, checked the score, laughed, and came here to see the shitshow.

 

If there's no other way. It's better if he's out _now_, before the end of the season. There's a lot of important decisions the new manager needs to make, and we need to give him as much time as possible to make them. Frankly Wenger should have been fired three weeks ago, or after one of the Bayern games. It's getting to the point where every day Wenger stays in the job leaves the club weaker than it was the day before.

 

I voted go....there are numerous reasons why...as to perhaps a new one? For me, aside from all the better reasons for him to leave, I guess I'll throw in that he truly seems to have ZERO idea as to how scouting and transfers work these days. It's now quite clear that David Dein didn't just help Wenger recruit players, he was the ONLY ONE doing so, at least for the truly great ones that signed with Arsenal. The difference in quality between the players that came here when Dein was still around and that have come since he has been gone is truly hilarious.

Wenger scouts and scouts and scouts and scouts and scouts and scouts and scouts until finally another team comes in, pays for the player so that Wenger goes and pays more for a different player that isn't as good as the one he was originally scouting. Then we also have these last minute ridiculous panic buys that cost far more than they should, generally don't produce, OR we don't think they produce because he then refuses to play them ala Lucas. It's absolutely mind boggling. And I'll throw in that our youth academy these days appears to be quite atrocious. I don't have much confidence in any of them amounting to much.

Basically there is no new reason for wanting him out because even a blind man knows that these reasons have been completely visible for years now.

 

Early into this downward trend I was angry. Then I became apathetic and am increasingly so.

However, when it comes to Wenger, I am almost at a pity stage. It's like watching a punch drunk boxer that doesn't know when to quit. The crowd, the ref, the other boxers can all see that this dude shouldn't be in the ring and is just taking more and more punishment but the boxer himself and his staff refuse to throw in the towel.

He has successfully killed his legacy. He's just taking more head shots at this point.

 

I voted go. And I have been very late to the Arsene must go bandwagon having voted stay in the two previous iteration of this poll.

I guess my all time low was 8-2 but the fact is I don't have other lows since just because it's so sad the poor form, the apathy, the soul-crushing Kroenke regime, and the fact that we're at our third Where-do-you-stand poll.

My reconnection with Arsenal, fueled by the arrival of Fox Sports to tiny backwater was largely fueled by admiration for Wenger. I won our Arsenal draft largely because I got Wenger...

But I guess my true feelings re Wenger were revealed last season when I discovered that I actually wanted Leicester to win it all... I wanted the heartwarming underdog to claim the brass ring as opposed to us prevailing over a bunch of substandard Premiership powerhouses.

I'm ready for the divorce.

 

In this analogy, the board would be Edmond Tarverdyan, and Stan would be Bob Arum/ Don King. Arsenal has been pimped.

I, too, feel pity for Wenger. I, also, have wanted him gone for years. But, there is no need to beat a dead horse. The whole thing has been so sad to watch over the years.

 

With no management structure in place to ensure continuity?

I can see your lot taking another hit in the post-Wenger era.