A somewhat radical idea for MLS/D1/the US top tier that I have been thinking about. You'll probably find this long, ludicrous and painfully dull. Enjoy. http://wp.me/p5ioea-BH
That's an interesting take, but I do not see the number of D1 level clubs going much beyond 32. Most of that has to do with the gobsmacking amounts of TV money going around. By your thesis, the EPL should probably have all the Championship sides added to Div 1. However, the England FA hasn't done that because I'm sure the owners don't want to share the TV revenue and halve their slice of the pie. All the NA major leagues seem to be capping out at around 30-32 teams as you seem to get diminishing returns unless you have teams outside of the the USA. However, I see the Div 2 and Div 3 levels as being the new professional minor league with a lot of club movement. I also see it growing in popularity because through the USOC and Canadian Championships, it allows lower level teams to actually play against the big boys with the prize of a CCL spot at the end. There is no comparable event in any NA pro sport. We have to remember, the North American pro sports system is designed to allow the cream of the athletes to rise to the top of their game with the best professional clubs. The European model is designed to around helping clubs rise to their highest level using the best players available. To me, the club system just gets in the way of player development.
More than 40 teams is to much. Media Coverage, TV Revenue share, etc. @chungachanga "Btw, I didn't quite get what happens with Championship in your suggestion during playoffs? Do these teams just finish in October and sits out November and then one of them is in the finals in December? If so, that's a big flaw." NO. During Championship 2nd Phase the other 32 clubs are playing a Group Stage to MLS Cup. After that the 8 championship finalists enters MLS CUP knock-out phase at regionals playoffs. Each club will play 32 games. The only difference is MLS Cup Playoffs, depending on each team success during Knock-out phase. Because many calendar restrictions 32 games is the "right" number. For example, less midweek games... I THINK THIS FORMAT COULD BE A GOOD OPTION: (I don't understand why my thread was closed...) After ENDING NASL... Division 1 - Major League Soccer. 40 Clubs. Championship and Cup. 32 games. Division 2 - National League Soccer. 80 Clubs: 40 "B" Clubs + 40 Affiliated Clubs. 4 ConferenceX20 Clubs. 38 games + Playoffs (Championship). US Open Cup only with D2 clubs. MLS Championship 1st Phase: 40 Clubs. 4 Conferences: East, West, Central and South - 10 clubs each conference. 18 games. (March until June) 2nd Phase (A): National. 1st and runner-up from each Conference: 8 clubs. 14 games. (July until October) MLS Cup 1st Phase (B): 32 Clubs. 4 Conferences - 8 clubs each conference. 14 games. (July until October) 2nd Phase: 16 clubs. 8 clubs (A) + 8 clubs (1st stage) (November) 2nd Phase R1- Conference Semi-finals: 16 clubs 1st B VS 2nd A | 2nd B VS 1st A (home and away) R2: 8 Clubs (No restrictions) (home and away) R3: 4 Clubs (home and away) R4: 2 Clubs (one game) MLS Super Cup: Championship Winner VS CUP Winner (one game) CONCACAF (32 CLUBS): 8 MLS Clubs (6 US + 2 Canada) 8 Groups X 4 Clubs. 6 Games. R16-R8-R4-R2. 7 Games MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF GAMES: 53. Now 55 games. - 2 games.
Thanks for the feedback. One of the biggest issues with MLS at the moment, is attracting fans from regions that don't have a local team whose matches they can attend. In these circumstances, the only access these people have to MLS is via television. Unlike most major leagues in America, there is significant competition for viewers. Many choose Liga MX and/or EPL over MLS. Whereas viewers all over the US will tune in for a big NFL game, that's not the case for MLS. By putting teams in local markets, as well as the attendance gains, we're also creating emotional investment not just in the team but to a point, in the rest of the league. By going to 64 teams, you've got the capacity to put a team in every state and create a presence in the vast majority of markets, nationwide. This presence also expands US soccer's scouting range. By having an MLS team, an affiliate, reserve teams and connections to local youth soccer, we have the capacity to drive a stronger youth system, allowing better players to come through in greater numbers. This in turn will improve the product, hopefully attracting greater revenues and interest, while also potentially providing financial boosts via greater transfer fees for the better players moving abroad. Hopefully, these factors will offset some of the revenue sharing issues (if not eliminating them altogether) and could even drive better media interest and TV contracts. England's a little different to what we have here. I'd say there's actually more of an argument to splitting the EPL up into two divisions with pro/rel, as there is a significant divide (Leicester's fairy tail notwithstanding) between the top and bottom of the league. Regionalising English football at the top level doesn't serve much purpose. You'd likely end up with a northern league dominated by Man United, City and Liverpool, while the south was contested between Chelsea, Arsenal and maybe Spurs. You don't have the geographical or population concerns in England that the US has.
That's why I also agree that soccer needs more organic growth than any sport in North America to become popular. The ideal is 40 teams only in US and Canada with is own league in the future with 8 clubs (2 torunaments per season, 28 games).
Your lunacy has already been shut down. Now, you are either: 1) trolling or 2) deliberately trying to infect other threads with your lunacy Please.Just.Stop.
I opened your blog yesterday but it was so long, I got scared away. However, if your suggestion is 64 teams, regional NCAA style system, I like such ideas. MLS isn't a TV sport, except in markets that have MLS clubs, and I don't think it will change significantly. For NFL or NBA, TV contract discourages expanding. For MLS, not so much. More clubs, more fun for me personally (would love a March Madness style end of season for MLS). And like you say, more academies. Of course, if they went to 64, by the time they get there, most of us would probably be dead. But fun to think about it!
Kinda but rather than having a traditional post-season, you have a US/Canadian "champions league" style tournament, running alongside the regular season.
I'm guessing this proposal comes from the idea that the US and Canada are equivalent to all of Western Europe, and Western Europe supports well over 100 clubs that spend above current MLS budgets. But the reason top-flight leagues in the US seem to max out at 30-32 clubs is probably that the audience is split between multiple sports. If there were a single sport that commanded the lion's share of the sports dollars in the US and Canada, then I suspect regional leagues with a "champions league" style tournament would already exist, because there would be 100+ high-spending pro clubs in one sport rather than 140 top-flight clubs in five different sports.
I think we already went over that regionalization at the Div 1 level won't happen because advertisers are willing to pay more for NY vs LA games. Taking those away (and assuming both of either the NY or LA teams fail to make the playoffs) will lead to lower TV revenue than is possible with a coast-to-coast league. That said, regionalization makes perfect sense for the lower divisions and we can see that happening now. I think one of the reasons MLS has managed to make inroads is because it is only competing for eyeballs against Major League Baseball from mid-June to mid-September. Then the NFL starts up, followed by the NHL and then the NBA (not to mention most of the European leagues).
To a point, though it was more based on the fact that being in D1 simply makes clubs more money, and having a truly nationwide presence would increase attendances and interest. My proposed gradual expansion somewhat caters for determining what works in terms of size. If we hit 40 and either expansion candidates dry up or revenues don't cut it, we can stop or pause. That's something I hadn't considered. I'd hope the overall interest was increased enough to mitigate that. After all, current ratings don't exactly command a great TV deal. We could tweak the national championship format to keep teams from each conference away from each other much as possible. Perhaps the group stage has the 1st and lowest ranked from the same conference in each group, with the other three all being from different conferences.
I personally think D1 should continue as a national league with a max in the 30 team range. I think lots of these other teams/markets you are talking about are a good fit for DII and DIII. I think the focus should be on making tournaments like the US Open cup more popular and filling the void you are talking about. IMO, that is where the competition between divisions should take place. I really think as DII and DIII grow the US Open Cup has a chance to really become a popular/special tournament. Maybe bring some group play into it at the later stages where you have DI, DII and DIII mixed together in groups. That could be fun. I know fixture congestion becomes a problem but I think it is something they should consider. I really think fans will embrace that tournament eventually....I hope... Americans are familiar and comfortable with the major/minor league set up. I can image that baseball fans would love to see a tournament that pitted their favorite AA or AAA teams against MLB teams.
CAN I TRY TO EXPLAIN MY 40 CLUBS, 32 GAMES... Because, I think SHORTER COMPETITIONS could be more APPEALING to US soccer fans. MAJOR LEAGUE SOCCER COMPETITIONS: - MLS CHAMPIONSHIP - MLS CUP ("Replacing" US Open Cup, they could keep the name... With 40 teams in MLS I Don't see the need for a competiton between other division, specially if this Division will be the MLS "B", no independent clubs.) MLS CHAMPIONSHIP - QUALIFYING TOURNAMENT - Conference Leagues Stage: 4 Conferences, 10 clubs each, 18 home and away games. 2 berths per conference. This is also the 1st CUP qualifying stage, defining seeding in the second stage (interconference groups). - MLS CHAMPIONSHIP- National League Stage: 8 Clubs, 14 games. This 8 clubs are also automatically qualified to MLS Cup. When this 8 finalists are competing for the MLS Championship, the other 32 clubs are competing in MLS CUP Qualying Tournament for the remaining 8 spots. MLS CUP - QUALIFYING TOURNAMENT- Interconference Stage: 4 Groups (NOT CONFERENCES, instead interconference groups), 8 clubs each, 14 home and away games. 2 berths per group. Western Conference, Eastern Conference, Southern Conference, Central Conference (order is irrelavant) Group 1 - 3rd and 10th, 4th and 9th, 5th and 8th, 6th and 7th Group 2 - 4th and 8th, 6th and 10th, 3rd and 7th, 5th and 9th Group 3 - 5th and 9th, 3rd and 7th, 6th and 10th, 4th and 8th Group 4 - 6th and 7th, 5th and 8th, 4th and 9th, 3rd and 10th. READS vertically - MLS CUP- Knock-out Stage: R1-16 | R2-8 | R3-4 |R4-2 (Final), 7 Games. MLS Super Cup: MLS Championship Winner VS MLS Cup Winner (one game). CONCACAF Champions League: 6 berths - MLS Championship Winner and Runner-up - MLS Cup Winner and Runner-up - Supporter's Shield Winner (Best season performance. Cup and Championship) - Best 1st place at Championship Qualification and at Cup Qualification not yet qualified. MLS Calendar Championship Qualification - March until June (40 clubs) Championship - July until October. (8 Clubs) Cup Qualification - July until October (32 Clubs) Cup - November (8+8=16 Clubs) MLS Super Cup - 1st weekend of December. TOTAL DOMESTIC GAMES: 40 (maximum). CONCACAF Champions League (32 clubs): 13 games (maximum). TOTAL: 53 games (maximum)
I think this is an interesting approach. Allows for a decent number of teams. Lots to play for all season.
Sure it is an interesting idea. However extremely confusing and complicated for the average American sports fan. On top of that MLS will never water down their brand by allowing markets like Colorado Springs Switchbacks or Harrisburg City Islanders to be a part of MAJOR LEAGUE SOCCER. You would have to include teams like this to make it to 40. As I said in my post above I think discontinuing the US Open Cup for something like this would be a mistake. I think they should bring group play into the US Open Cup. Although I am not sure how that works schedule wise. I wonder if as MLS grows to 26+ teams if they would ever consider just playing each team once which would significantly reduce the number of MLS season games.
This topic is bringing a lot of out there proposals so I will throw one of mine into the ring. How about Open Cup victories count towards your league standings. Going off the 2016 bracket... USL enters in the 2nd Round and teams would get a point for advancing to the 3rd round (where NASL teams enter), 2 points for advancing to the 4th (where MLS teams enter), and 3 points for advancing after each massive upset from there on. A team that wins and raises the profile of the league gets rewarded with points. Last year I don't think a USL team upset a MLS team. For MLS you get a point for advancing to the quarters, the semis, the finals, and winning the USOC. This would raise the stakes and profile of the tournament.
Since when to achieve 40 clubs you need cities like Colorado Springs or Harrisburg?!! Let's see... http://tinypic.com/r/97pukg/9 :0 What's the point of US Open Cup if D2 is made up of MLS B teams? Is not confusing, it seems at first sight, but it's not.
I think your format spices midseason up a little bit, which is nice. Teams would be fighting for 8 playoff spots in spring and June. But the rest of the regular season would have more dead games. Those 8 winners don't have much to fight for until playoffs. So from June until October, they don't have much to fight for. They are still playing regular season games (which you call Championship) but that's only for playoff seeding (not a huge deal), CONCACAF CL spot (not a big deal) and a spot in "MLS Super Cup" (also not a big deal, this is basically like Community Shield with a fancier name). Some of the other 32 teams will also have a lot of dead games, because with just 8 playoff spots, many of them will be out of running quickly. I'd stick with current format, it's simple and works ok.
That 8 winners are competing for the MLS League Champion Title. With 40 teams obviously you have more "dead games". I don't see how the current format will work better with 40 teams...
Which is just part of the regular season in the big picture. An additional regular season award next to Supporters Shield. This is a gimmick, you took a piece of regular season, a stage within regular season, called it "Championship" and called the winner "league champion." Just giving something a fancy name won't make it super important. There's one champion, the team that wins the big prize. In your format, the big prize seems to still be the MLS Cup. So the only real champion will be the MLS Cup winner. I imagine "Championship" title would be perceived as pretty meaningless, and I think "Super Cup" would be seen as pointless as well. It's a bit gimmicky and convoluted. In October: "Watch final games of MLS Championship! MLS League Champion will be decided this weekend!" In November: "Watch MLS Cup Final! MLS champion will be decided this weekend!" In December: "Watch MLS Super Cup! The battle between MLS champions and MLS League Champions! This is the final most important match, really, honestly this time!" I don't see how it wouldn't work better. I think it doesn't matter how many teams there are in your format, 20, 40, 80, 5000, I think it's not a good idea to have 25% of them qualify for the playoffs at midseason and then play pretty meaningless games for 4 months.
For forty teams in only the 35 largest U.S. markets and the three largest Canadian markets means no team in a CSA smaller than 1.9 million. There are about fifty markets that are large enough to support an NBA, NFL, or NHL team. Or an MLS team in the league it dreams of becoming. Not all of those places will get a team before diminishing returns in media value end expansion, but it's before Harrisburg gets a team. And there are two Canadian cities larger than Colorado Springs that don't have the NHL. There's no way it gets an MLS team, in any universe.
Ok. In Europe we have usually 4 Domestic season titles: - League Champion - the most importante title. - National Cup Winner - the second most important - League Cup Winner - the third - Super Cup Winner - the 4th In my format, the League Champion is the Winner of The Championship. Because instead of a knock-out tournament you have a National League of Champions after the Conference Leagues.
Which are separate competitions, and in large part are popular due to traditions. What you have are not separate competitions, just gimmicks. What you call "League Champion" is a regular season champion, not very different from current Supporters Shield winner. What you call "Super Cup" is a game between overall (playoffs) champion and the best regular season team, which is a bit pointless. You want to remove Open Cup, replace it with gimmicks and expect that to be popular simply due to fancy names like "Championship" and "Super." If it was that simple to make something popular, we could just save the Open Cup by giving it a fancy name. Larry Hunt Super Mega Universe Championship Cup?
I think it will stop in the 30s -- 32, 34 -- simply because it's a major league thing to do. MLS is fighting for perception and wants to fit in with the big boys. Otherwise yep, I think there's no big reason not to grow to quite a big number. I don't think national TV revenue is or will be a big deal, MLS will always be more local, attendance based league. It's also easier for MLS to keep small markets competitive in an increasing league, because the league setup is seemingly immune to antitrust lawsuits and therefore salary cap can be kept super low. Also talent pool is massive and international, so big markets can't just gobble all the good players up. Anyway, I don't think MLS will go far past 30, but I think it would be fun to see a big league. I'd enjoy an NCAA style huge regional 1st tier. Also would be good for growth of youth soccer.