American expansion possibilities

Discussion in 'NWSL Expansion' started by WPS_Movement, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Certainly believable... IIRC, the Adidas/Nike difference was cited as the reason that the NWSL squads couldn't share the names with the brother clubs because Adidas had brand rights to the names and imagery of the MLS sides.
     
  2. L.A. Sports Fan

    L.A. Sports Fan New Member

    Feb 1, 2016
    1C3C3994-F164-43C9-9726-4E126B1012CA.jpeg Thought I’d put a little tease here :p
     
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  3. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    Tonight's game was "Women in Sports Night." Doesn't really mean anything regarding a NWSL team...
     
  4. L.A. Sports Fan

    L.A. Sports Fan New Member

    Feb 1, 2016
    Oh I know, I was there. I just wanted to see if anybody took the bait :p.
     
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  5. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    Oh sorry if I ruined it. :speechless:
     
  6. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    With the World Cup victory, it's probably the best time for expansion. How long before Los Angeles is announced?
     
  7. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    There hasn't been any rumors of behind-the-scenes talk recently at all, so I doubt LA or anyone gets announced soon. Two things to consider, though:
    --Orlando wasn't very far in the works when the 2015 World Cup ended but was announced by October, so things can move quickly. IDK if the owners would like a rush job again though.
    --The WNT will be in LA shortly for the ESPYs and (I believe) victory events at the Rose Bowl. If LA gets announced this year at all, it's either then or when the offseason hits.
     
  8. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I wouldn't expect hard expansion announcement while the NWSL is still tied at the hip to USSF.
     
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  9. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    UCLA Bruins
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Waiting for this for the last 10 years, please please Mia Hamm, give us LAFC fans a NWSL team and lets snatch all the Californian talent from the other teams :sneaky::sneaky:
     
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  10. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    If the Courage haven't led the league in UCLA alums, I don't know who has!
     
  11. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    as you (& halloran & others) have hinted, the ownership group is supposedly retaining management rights from ussoccer at the end of this year. so no big expansion announcements likely before then. but, of course, that's when the heavy lifting for the individual owners begins as well.

    ussoccer is hated. but they are the ones who revived & are propping up pro club woso so as to keep a world's best wnt cash/crowd producing thing going.

    the ownership group don't have the crowds and may not have the cash to keep pro club woso alive. so color me officially worried.

    the two sides, (& players too), should agree to some kind of slow, measured disentangling only as the club crowds and tv $$ increase.

    we'll see.
     
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  12. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    An interesting and well-measured summary on the current state of NWSL expansion, plus keeping current organizations doing well:
    https://equalizersoccer.com/2019/08/06/nwsl-expansion-updates-current-teams-strength-ownership/

    I say "interesting" because it includes a few tidbits that I've completely missed and haven't been posted here yet:
    --During the WWC, Mia Hamm commented that the LAFC ownership group is very much "not yet" on NWSL - they're still focused on having the MLS team settle in properly, particularly in making sure they have a few years of balancing MLS-level revenues & expenses before taking on NWSL. (There might even be some inadvertent shade being thrown when she said she didn't know of any MLS team that started an NWSL team soon after joining MLS - which is exactly what Orlando did, though maybe she's thinking of their time as a USL side before joining MLS?)
    --Duffy told the NYT just last week that she DOES expect NWSL to have TEN teams next year. Her old organization, Louisville City FC, seem to be the apparent 10th team (and would explain which USL side Paulson hosted at a Thorns match recently).
    --Hartford is also still in the conversation but apparently on the outside looking in.
     
  13. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Portland Timbers entered MLS in 2009. The Thorns entered NWSL in 2012. So, that example would be 3 years in MLS and then a NWSL team.
     
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  14. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    Maybe Los Angeles and Hartford enter in 2021? League holds pat for 2022 and then expands again on 2023(World Cup year). Nashville? Cincinnati? Minnesota? Atlanta?
     
  15. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Unlikely, if only because it doesn't sound like Hartford is making any headway. Also, if anything, they stay at 10 for an extra year before going to 12. And I'd probably disregard MIN & ATL and instead consider MIA - though if we knew which two MLS teams were the ones that Paulson hosted recently, that would really give us a better idea of while MLS sides are *actually* interested. I'm not confident in any of the four you mention because none of them have actually shown any real interest - they've either been "let's thrown an NWSL mention into our stadium plan to try to sell it to the city better" or "oh, someone just asked us about NWSL, we'd better say we'd consider it".
     
  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I think there's a difference in the age of organizations on the field. The current Portland organization started playing in 2001, and the current ownership took over in 2007 - the Thorns didn't take the field until 2013. 6 or 12 years depending on how you look at it.

    The Austin Aztex moved to become the Orlando City SC in 2010, with the current ownership. The Pride started in 2016. 6 years.

    The original MLS San Jose Clash/Earthquakes moved to Houston in 2006. The Dash started playing in 2014. 8 years.

    Real Salt Lake was a 2005 true expansion team. The Royals were reborn from FCKC's ashes in 2018. 13 years.

    LAFC took the field in 2018.

    I think Mia Hamm meant exactly what she said.
     
  17. McSkillz

    McSkillz Member+

    UCLA Bruins
    United States
    Nov 22, 2014
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At that rate, it's like we have to go on the assumption that LAFC wont get an NWSL team until 2028 or something. That makes my heart sink as that's such a long wait. Who even knows if NWSL would still be around by then?
     
  18. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I definitely think she meant from when an organization began - but what she said (or at least what was reported she said) was when an organization joined MLS. Just probably misspoke, I think.
     
  19. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Per the underlined language, if STT's report is right, Hamm was referring to a few years of "balancing" MLS level revenues and expenses. So, the reference is to MLS years, not to prior years. But, if one assumes by "balancing" she means a few years in which the MLS Team's revenues at least equal their expenses, this could be significantly (or, in some cases infinitely) more years than the number of years the team is in the MLS. It sounds like her point was that she thinks they want to be sure the MLS team is financially secure before they add an NWSL team. If I'm an MLS team owner, that makes sense. It also might provide fodder for those who think an MLS pairing isn't always needed. In fact, it suggests that a city's getting a new MLS team might mean a significant delay in the possibility of the city getting a NWSL team, if the NWSL team is to be linked to the MLS team.
     
  20. WoSoFan

    WoSoFan Member

    Dec 23, 2017
    Actually I did some research on the USL Louisville FC Club and they could be a good grab for NWSL. They are another "wannabe" MLS franchise seeker, and that could very well happen even before NCFC/NCC gets considered. The Louisville FC men's team actually draws a lot better, 8479 to NCFC's 4282. The real kicker is that they have a 10,000 seat stadium under construction and due to open in March of 2020. Plus it is designed so they can expand to 20,000 in seating should MLS approval happen.
     
  21. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    (There might even be some inadvertent shade being thrown when she said she didn't know of any MLS team that started an NWSL team soon after joining MLS - which is exactly what Orlando did, though maybe she's thinking of their time as a USL side before joining MLS?)

    And of course the Portland Timbers played its first match in January of 2011 and Paulson announced the formation of the women’s PTFC team (and league) in fall 2012. I’m sure he decided before that. By that timeline, Miashould be announcing a team this November.

    Since even Paulson thought a target attendance for break even was 7,000, I think he took a larger risk than Mia is contemplating.
     
  22. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Well, not really. The MLS Timbers played their first MLS match on March 19 of 2011. The Thorns were announced on November 21, 2012. So about 18 months between the MLS team saw its first paid fan until the announcement.

    The USL Timbers did partner with the WPSL Portland Rain and local clubs starting in 2009.
     
  23. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    I look at it as 18 months. That’s the span between when Paulson had a hint at what MlS attendance would be and the NWSL was announced.

    The old USL Timbers were purchased as a secondary purchase of a BASEBALL team by Paulson from an owner of a AAA short season baseball team with visions of bringing MLB baseball to Portland. The Timbers were just something to fill in dates when baseball wasn’t scheduled. He originally contemplated selling off the soccer team so he could concentrate on MLB. He knew nothing about soccer when he got here.

    Zero .

    It turned out the USL team drew about 7K per game as a second division team in 2007 and that was more than the Portland Beavers baseball put in the seats all season. It was impressive for a second division team, but certainly not enough to shell out gobs of money on a Women’s team. 7000 was what Paulson HOPED for the women the first year. Before the season started, he declared that would be break even.

    And i think that was based on the figures for the first year he owned the USL Timbers. Ticket pricing was even similar, as i recall.

    And Mia’s organization was formed in 2014. She had thirty years experience in soccer before that.
     
  24. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Dream on.

    Nobody would afford to live in LALA on NWSL salaries.
     
  25. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    According to Caitlin Murray's new book, Paulson thought they could break even with a Thorns average attendance of 2,000; and the best case would be 8,000. Their first year, they averaged about 13,000.
     

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