All-time XIs by country

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Hidegkuti78, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, it's difficult, especially with a DM. Would he get sent off and banned for 20 games inside 20 minutes, in a 'modern' game lol?

    So my team is 'to the best of my knowledge' really, but I do think Ardiles might well be more favoured by me in terms of style of play, and perhaps fits better the Argentine quick pass/dribble style too, so could help set such a tempo in the initial build-up? I felt he had more energy and ball recovering ability compared to say Juan Sebastian Veron, and fitted better than him deep in a 4-2-3-1 type system anyway.

    Arguably if using Kempes, maybe a 4-2-2-2 system could suit best again? With Di Stefano or Messi up alongside Kempes as 'attacker'. I don't know but maybe Moreno even has better chances if that was the formation, as opposed to perhaps his younger version playing as main striker(?), given the many top options behind the striker already available. I guess Di Stefano would be considered in his 'matured' form anyway, even though he didn't represent the Argentine NT at that time, since by all accounts his younger self might not have been quite good enough to get a place, even if then he might suit the main striker role moreso. Messi could even be false 9 of course, but I don't think 4-3-3 would be the best choice.
     
  2. Hidegkuti78

    Hidegkuti78 Member

    Sep 2, 2015
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    I'll stick to my former 4222 with Messi-D10S behind Batigol-DiStéfano
     
  3. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    For many Argentinians Moreno would be an automatic choice. He was in a higher class than Batistuta. With Di Stefano and Messi around there appears to be no need for a specialist goalscorer.

    Sastre, another in the top bracket according to Argentine sources, played at right-half throughout the successful 1937 Copa America campaign and could replace Redondo here.

    The rest look good. Fillol/Carrizo could go either way.
     
  4. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    I suppose so, maybe Moreno could be instead of Batistuta and could take the place of Maradona by the left side. Something like this:

    - Messi ------------ Maradona ------------ Moreno

    Di Stéfano​

    In a mobile system where all of them could have offensive insights seems possible. It would be an awesome attack front, perhaps the most imposing that could be put together in terms of historical individualities for a country all-time XI. However, I'm not sure if the best of Di Stéfano could happen in that central society, I think he would go a little better behind a main striker (precisely because of what PDG1978 commented above about his mature version).

    Yes, I think it's another fair possibility.
     
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  5. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    France

    Fabien Barthez

    Laurent Blanc ----- Marcel Desailly -

    Lilian Thuram ----------------------------------------------- Manuel Amorós

    Patrick Vieira ------ Jean Tigana -

    Raymond Kopa ------ Michel Platini ------ Zinedine Zidane

    Thierry Henry
    5 substitutes:

    [GK] BATS, Joël
    [SW] BOSSIS, Maxime
    [DM] DESCHAMPS, Didier
    [SM] RIBÉRY, Franck
    [CF] FONTAINE, Just
     
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  6. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This would be my front line of choice as well. Not only is the talent level arguably highest, but I think it has the best balance.

    1. Having Moreno and Messi out wide means there's natural cutting inside, opening up space for the fullbacks.

    2. Maradona can play in his best position.

    3. Di Stefano was a central forward anyway, but unlike Batigol, he was a roaming mobile one, which is perfect foil for the on rushing Moreno and Messi who both liked to get into the box.
     
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  7. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member

    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Country/National team:
    Croatia
    Zidane left winger? seriously. That would never ever work. As per usual, those all time XI turns out to be the-best-players-forced-together-despite-they-would-have-never-worked-out-as-a-team XI

    Why not just make a list of 11 best player for each country? You would get roughly the same result.
     
  8. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    I guess you misunderstand the drawing. There isn't any winger.

    That's precisely what I avoid and from what I've read nobody has fallen into it yet, which is a pleasure. I think you're making the mistake of believing that because Zidane appears on a side of Platini in the drawing he would take the role of winger, for what you're thinking in a type of system with wingers that doesn't make sense for that lineup (with Kopa and Zidane obviously more like side playmakers, Platini as a type of trequartista or support striker and Henry as free-role forward who could ocassionally take the flanks, especially the left).

    Whether or not the best lineup is debatable, but I think it's clear that it could work very well if you don't just think about the symmetry of the drawing, but in the interactions that they could made according to their characteristics.

    Actually, I've more doubts about Vieira and Tigana at the same time.
     
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  9. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member

    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Country/National team:
    Croatia
    I guess i did misinterpret it. Fair enough.

    In that case, with 3 narrow attacking midfielders, fullbacks have to be very good offensively. I am not sure about Amoros guy, but Thuram doesn't seem to be a perfect fit although he could contribute offensively occasional, but i don't think enough tho, for this role.

    About Tigana - Vieira duo, hmm.. both are similar players, as far as i can tell, so that might be a slight issue, but i believe both are versatile enough to make it work. The bigger problem imo is the fact that they don't have enough freedome to make runs, cuze they are too many players right in front of them. They would work better in 4-4-2 formation, i believe (

    It's an interesting team nevertheless.
     
  10. tLB Odiseo

    tLB Odiseo Member

    Necaxa, Galatasaray, Real Madrid
    Dec 18, 2011
    México
    Club:
    NEC
    Country/National team:
    Mexico
    Di Stéfano is the best option to play on center-AM because he was able to go back to defense, starting the plays and the tempo of his team from there.

    Maradona can play on left-wing as LAM with the same highest peak ... to be honest I have never seen another footballer playing on left-side as the level as Maradona ... he was impressive in any place of the offensive midifielder (LAM, CAM or RAM)
     
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  11. tLB Odiseo

    tLB Odiseo Member

    Necaxa, Galatasaray, Real Madrid
    Dec 18, 2011
    México
    Club:
    NEC
    Country/National team:
    Mexico
    [​IMG]

    or

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. tLB Odiseo

    tLB Odiseo Member

    Necaxa, Galatasaray, Real Madrid
    Dec 18, 2011
    México
    Club:
    NEC
    Country/National team:
    Mexico
  13. Amir14

    Amir14 Member

    Mar 10, 2012
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country/National team:
    Iran
    Iran

    _______________Daei_______________
    _______________Karimi______________
    _____Dejagah___________Mahdavikia__
    ___________Bagheri___Nekounam______
    __Mohammadi _______________Kaebi___
    ____Golmohammadi___Rezaei_________
    _____________Abedzadeh_____________
     
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  14. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    [​IMG]

    Reserved: Efrain Sanchez, Mario Yepes, Pablo Escobar, Mauricio Serna, James Rodriguez, Delio Gamboa, Arnoldo Iguarán.
     
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  15. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Paraguay

    [GK] José Luis Chilavert
    [CB] Rogelio Delgado
    [CB] Carlos Gamarra
    [CB] Juan Vicente Lezcano
    [WB] Francisco Arce
    [WB] Claudio Morel Rodríguez
    [CM] Manuel Fleitas Solich
    [AM] Julio César Romero
    [SS] Aurelio González
    [FW] Eulogio Martínez
    [ST] Arsenio Erico

    Chilavert

    Delgado --- Gamarra --- Lezcano
    ------- Arce ------------------------------------------------ Morel Rodríguez

    Fleitas Solich

    Romero -------- González -------------------
    -----------------------------------------
    Martínez
    Erico​


    Rest of the squad:

    [GK] Sinforiano García
    [GK] Adolfo Riquelme
    [CB] Heriberto Herrera
    [CB] Celso Ayala
    [WH] Julio César Ramírez
    [SB] Juan Bautista Torales
    [DM] Modesto Bria
    [CM] Roberto Acuña
    [SS] Saturnino Arrúa
    [FW] Cayetano Ré
    [FW] Delfín Benítez Cáceres
    [ST] José Saturnino Cardozo

    Others:

    [GK] Éver Almeida
    [GK] Roberto Fernández
    [CB] Julio César Cáceres
    [CB] Paulo Da Silva
    [WH] Manuel Gavilán
    [CM] Carlos Humberto Paredes
    [SM] Juan Manuel Battaglia
    [PM] Hugo Talavera
    [WF] Evaristo Isasi
    [WF] Juan Bautista Villalba
    [SS] Juan Ángel Romero
    [ST] Raúl Vicente Amarilla
    [ST] Carlos Diarte
    [ST] Roberto Cabañas
    [ST] Salvador Cabañas
     
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  16. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member

    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Country/National team:
    Croatia
    no all time leading goalscorer for Paraguay, Roque Santa Cruz?
     
  17. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    To be honest, in general terms I think he didn't have a such good career to be considered despite he's a very familiar name when Paraguay is mentioned.

    Maybe he would scrape a mention in others.
     
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  18. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Jun 11, 2012

    1. vd Sar, for all the reasons above.
    2. Stam, has played RB much more than Gullit. I find Cruiff's idea too speculative but not wrong.
    3. Krol, for all the reasons above.
    4. Rijkaard, for all the reasons above.
    5. Frank de Boer, many caps, (many as captain and with many goals.) I dont think other aspects set him apart from Neeskens, Koeman or Haan etc.
    6. Davids, for all the reasons above. Gullit and van Hanegem could slot aswell.
    7. Cruijff, for all the reasons above.
    8. Sneijder, not the best Dutchie, but hyper productive with the NT from day one.
    9. van Hooijdonk, twice the strike rate of van Basten at NT level.
    10. Geels, same as van Hooijdonk.
    11. Robben, for all the reasons above.

    Considering Wilkes, Lenstra, Kick Smit and all the stars that went to France back in the day, I find them hard to compare. Some line-ups were so laden with stars yet the Dutch didnt win much. This makes me wonder how good the old legends really were. So I havent considered them.
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I agree there is an argument to be made for Stam, F. de Boer and Sneijder if we are looking at national team level. Sneijder created actually a lot of chances at euro 2012 (some OPTA in-game records even, if it is worth anything).

    Van Hooijdonk had 14 goals in 46 games for the national team. How is that twice the strike rate? Apart from that, he did not create enough against the stronger national teams (goals, or assists). Only started 4 games as well for the national team. I think that MvB (or Kluivert later, for the national team that is) could create goals on their own against the better sides (obscure example: the assist vs France 1992 - fully created on his own).

    Something similar applies to Ruud Geels. If it is about domestic league form then yes, I see some sort of argument. He was voted by the public in the all-time Eredivisie team ahead of the others when the league existed 50 and 60 years. Received 50% of the public votes. I'd rather have Wilkes for the national team as striker then, someone who was rated by British sources in the games he played against them (not only for Oranje).

    Likewise, a player like Seedorf would fall out of contention (while he's in or around top 10 assists for the Champions League) and if we would do the same for Belgium then De Bruyne would have a much stronger argument than Hazard so far (by miles), while at club level it is probably the opposite.
     
  20. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Jun 11, 2012
    Yes, Seedorf trumps many at club level. I never liked his triggerhappy style at the NT though. Bergkamp got an early sub so Seedorf could become a hero at euro 2000 if im not mistaken. He delivered quite poorly.
    Arie Haan is the most successful player at team level. His not too many performances at NT showed good form. He could potentially play at 4 or 6.

    van Hooijdonk scored 14 goals in 1295 minutes. MVB scored 24 in 4844 minutes. So that makes more than double the strike rate. That is my argument. (As a feyenoorder, you may be familiar with the dive-freekick create goals on your own scenario)

    Geels scored 11 in 1310 minutes. For a deeplying forward this is not shabby. Perhaps the median is too small, but it could be backed by his club career.
    I wouldnt say its wrong to pick Faas over Ruud. But then where does Lenstra go? What about etoiles Rijvers and de Harder? Smit, the Cruijff before Cruijff?
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #146 PuckVanHeel, Nov 25, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
    Ah okay, you mean per minutes rather than per game. That switches it around indeed.

    Van Hooijdonk started only 4 games. He generally entered after the 65th minute (31 of his 46 caps came after the 65th minute and 24 after the 70th minute). This was thus when opposition defenders were more tired and (often) when Oranje throwed more emphasis on the attack.

    It is right that he has more (non-pk) goals as a substitute than anyone else in the history of the national team, and with a margin, some credit goes for that, but I also think he didn't do really enough against the better opponents to entertain the thought.

    http://www.voetbalstats.nl/spelernedxi.php?persid=212

    The main candidates had generally (close to) always a contribution (an assist, a goal, a crucial dummy run like vs Germany at euro 1992 and pulling away two defenders) against the better opponents.

    (I don't comment on the other players because I don't want to make the post too long or derail the thread)
     
  22. Hidegkuti78

    Hidegkuti78 Member

    Sep 2, 2015
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    I think that Holland is the most difficult of all in this thread.
    Besides Cruijff and Van Basten, the following players ALL deserve a starting spot from the midfield up:

    Gullit
    Neeskens
    Rijkaard
    Robben
    Seedorf
    Sneijder
    Van Hanegem

    How can they fit in one XI I have no idea.
     
  23. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Jun 11, 2012
    If we put Gullit as Rb, its not too difficult.
    Neeskens played as sweeper/libero in the US, and was fantástico.
    Your team would be:
    1. vd Sar
    2. Gullit
    3. Krol (I suppose)
    4. Neeskens
    5. Rijkaard
    6. v Hanegem
    7. Robben/Cruijff
    8. Seedorf
    9. MVB
    10. Sneijder
    11. Robben/Cruijff
     
  24. Hidegkuti78

    Hidegkuti78 Member

    Sep 2, 2015
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    Nice tweak ;) but I'm not gonna waste Gullit at RB and Neeskens at CB...
     
  25. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Jun 11, 2012
    Pitty, you're probably the only person who can actually comment on those players, having your level of knowledge. Just send me the flack if people get bothered by analizing old stars of the game.
     

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