All-time Argentina NT XI

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Bada Bing, Sep 23, 2015.

  1. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    No, not as far as I know. Nolo had to travel back to Buenos Aires for some exam, he was to become a notary I think.
    Now that I think about it, perhaps the name of their team had some play in it, Estudiantes.. But the knickname Profesores was indeed given to them because they played so well together, it was said every game of theirs was a football class. That is what you read everywhere at least.
     
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  2. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    #77 Perú FC, Dec 23, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
    A lower step. Raimundo Orsi and Félix Loustau could easily be for me in the top 20 of best wingers of all-time, it gives them a high legendary status at this level in my opinion. In a more open radius I located to Óscar "Pinino" Más and Enrique "Chueco" García and then perhaps Enrique Guaita and Manuel Pelegrina.

    Yes, it's one of the features that makes him a so revered player. Without a doubt he's one of the best Argentine players of all-time, I'd say top 5 alongside Moreno, Di Stéfano, Maradona and Messi.
     
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  3. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    I read that it were exceptionals his one-two combinations with Lostau, passing the ball between them in the running and interchanging positions. The most notable "paredes" viewed in South America until the aparition of a certain duo: Pelé-Coutinho
     
  4. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Maybe, I'm not sure, but in 1957 he didn't exploit yet by sure.

    In 1958 he was the top goalscorer of the Argentinean league for first time in his career with 28 goals and ended with San Lorenzo in the third position (actually, tied for second place with Boca Juniors), just 3 points behind the champion, Racing Club. That year he was called to go to the World Cup in Sweden but he wasn't used in a remembered and disastrous campaign. One year later he won for first time the Argentinean league, he won that first achievement in 1959, but apparently regarding the individual he had already started the streak in 1958.

    Besides, I think his peak declines while he was playing in Uruguay for Nacional after he fractured his fibula in a friendly match. That's the reason because I'd say his prime was from 1958 to 1964.
     
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  5. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    In the first game at Copa America 1957, the "Carasucias" forward line was: Corbatta, Maschio, Angelillo, Sanfilippo and Cruz.
    In other games Sanfilippo as sub replaced any of Sivori or Maschio (in this case Sivori became the Inside Right)
    http://www.rsssf.com/tables/57safull.html

    Sanfilippo was the starter in the Extra CA 1959, alongside his club partners whom won the argentine league the same year with this forward line: Facundo, Ruiz, García, Sanfilippo and Boggio.
    http://www.rsssf.com/tables/59-2safull.html
     
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  6. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Well, René Pontoni reached a very high peak between 1945 and 1946 forming "El Trío de Oro" in San Lorenzo with Armando Farro and Rinaldo Martino. At that moment he was probably one of the best strikers in the world but I'd say his peak was short in comparison. After a slight decline the defender Rodolfo De Zorzi fractured his patella, meniscus and ligaments of the right leg truncating him when he was 27 or 28.

    He continued to play until 1954 but he was never again the same of his peak.

    I'd say Gabriel Batistuta had a more consistent career among the top strikers of his time and also has the bonus of a top international career with major records.
     
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  7. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    The typical case between peak/skillset vs consistency.
     
  8. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    #83 Once, Dec 23, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
    That bit about Labruna and Loustau is interesting. Can you tell me more or point me in the direction where I can read about that?
    I am curious becasuse in Peucelle's book (Futbol Todotiempo) he talks extensively about La Maquina, for instance, and he makes no mention of a special "connection" between Labruna and Loustau. The closest to what you talk about that can be found in such book is that Loustau was a tireless player that did not limit himself to one constricted position inside the field. But that speaks of the kind of player Felix was, not really about a special link with his left wing partner. He has all kinds of praise for Loustau, but not much for Labruna. Actually, from reading his words, one would imagine that of the famous forward line (Muñoz, Moreno, Pedernera, Labruna, Loustau), Labruna was the "simplest/most basic" of them. More than once speaks of how that short burst of speed was what serve Labruna well for over two decades. He even has a section to talk about "La Pared", and does mention Pelé-Coutinho and the highest example of that play, the only ones up to then to execute without effort the so called "Doble Pared". In this section he speaks of Pontoni-Martino as the best example of it in Argentine football.

    In 1973 Dante Panzieri said, talking about the birth of La Maquina, that while Pedernera and Labruna did not work well as left-wing and inside-left respectively, they did achieve a fantastic understanding and coordination when Pedernera moved to the CF position. They became so well engrained que jugaban de memoria. But as reasons why they did not work well as wing partners, Panzieri mentions two things: "Pedernera no era puntero de velocidad, no sentia esa funcion. Labruna no era interior para jugar con el puntero".
    By the way, both Peucelle and Panzieri agre in saying that La Maquina united three all time cracks (and that that is why that team was what it was): Moreno, Pedernera and Loustau. Seemingly, both of them also tend to think Moreno was the best of them.
     
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  9. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    But Batistuta and Pontoni were such different type of CFs anyways, werent they? I mean, Batistuta was all about power and finishing. Pontoni was renowned for his finishing as well, but more so for his technical skillset, intelligence and creativity, wasnt he?
     
  10. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    I remember read an article by Jorge Barraza about that and in other articles in magazine. I tried to find something to post, but nothing specific. Only this
    http://abcdonline.com.ar/tea/info/MonografiasDigitalizadas/RafaelFutbol1/FutbolArgentinoDeporTEA.doc.

    In this book it told about "paredes" played between ¡Labruna and W.Gomez, instead!

    Also an interesting part about "The Professors" rated by some as the third best attacking quintet in argentine league behind La Maquina and Independiente (late 30s)
     
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  11. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    If Pontoni's peak was only three years, then I will give the higher ranking to Batistuta despite being less skilled overall.
     
  12. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    Yes, apparently René Pontoni was more in the mold of an elegant and skillful striker with a refined finishing. Gabriel Batistuta was more a powerful beast of the area. By sure 2 different type of centre-forwards.
     
  13. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  14. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This is probably based on the NT's performances since I can't imagine Alfredo not being picked, and also why Tarantini > Marzolini
     
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  15. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    And Brindisi?
     
  16. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    The two weakest picks.
     
  17. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    By the way, as you can see in the link, this so called AFA all time XI was the result of the vote of six trainers (Carlos Ischia, Esteban Pogany, Ruben Insua, Diego Cocca, Ricardo Zielinski and Ricardo Rezza), so not to be taken like much. The only players in all six teams: Maradona, Messi and Passarella.
     
  18. Milan05

    Milan05 Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Perhaps this line-up has too many attacking players and as a result, it inbalances the team. Here I basically have 5 players who don't contribute defensively at all.

    You could put Mascherano or Cambiasso alongside Redondo, then take out Batistuta and make it a 4-2-3-1 formation.

    You know your team is good when Riquelme and Batistuta are left out.

    Fillol

    Zanetti
    - Perfumo - Passarella - Marzolini

    Redondo - Cambiasso

    Messi - Maradona - Kempes

    Di Stefano
     
  19. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    Just leave Di Stefano out. Played for Spain more than for Argentina and is not a conventional CF anyways. All you need is a scorer in front of those playmakers, not another guy wanting to conduct..
     
  20. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Nah, DiStefano is Argentine had he been Spaniard he would not be ranked so highly as a legend plus he scored loads of goals in his career. I don't get what Cambiasso is doing in an all-time Argentine squad, there's a dozen greater players than him at that position.

    Fillol

    Zanetti - Perfumo - Passarella - Marzolini

    Redondo - Sastre

    Messi - Maradona - Moreno

    Di Stefano
     
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  21. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Mascherano probably has the best claim as far as pure DMs are concerned.
     
  22. Milan05

    Milan05 Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Club:
    AC Milan
    This would be my Argentina XI from 21st century players only (the ones that I have seen live).

    [​IMG]
     
  23. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    As far as 21st century goes, isn't Heinze the best Argentinian LB?
     
  24. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Heinze has the better club career but Sorin was great with the NT, particularly CA04 and WC06.
     
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  25. Milan05

    Milan05 Member

    Dec 2, 2015
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I have to say that Romero has improved enormously over the past 6 years or so.

    At the South Africa World Cup he was nothing but a colossal liability. His early mistake against Germany forced Argentina look for an equalizer in the second half, which left them susceptible to the counter attack.

    But over the last 3 tournaments he's really surprised me. He was good at the World Cup and both of the Copa Americas. He doesn't make as many stupid mistakes anymore, and he is more confident when to coming out.

    Despite the fact that he's Argentina's most capped goalkeeper of all time, I still wouldn't put him anywhere near an the time XI though. He's been a benchwarmer for a great deal of his club career.

    My pick for goalkeeper would be Carrizo. Fillol is also a respectable choice but his lack of height (by GK standards) makes me lean towards Carrizo.
     
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