Alfredo Morales

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by #1 Feilhaber and Adu, Feb 26, 2019.

  1. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Call it what you will, but one thing is for sure - I need you assisting me for my fantasy draft next week, with your keen observational abilities that are superior to NFL GMs and fantasy gurus! Does your analytical superiority translate to other sports, or just The Beautiful Game?
     
  2. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Pointy ball is much more adaptable to stats, that is for sure. So you'll probably be ok. But I'm not a big fan. I like to go with the flow.

    Maybe pick Morales as your kicker - he's a Bundesliga starter, so he must be better than Kyle Rote Jr.
     
  3. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    My friend once told me he wanted to take some investing advice from Warren Buffett, because he's one of the best in the world at identifying the best talent (ie. business).

    I told him, "nah, man, I have keen analytical abilities (not stats tho), and excellent observational flow. Listen to me."

    Sure, he lost his entire investment, but I still maintain my eye for business is better than Buffett. I actually called Buffett (or at least a guy in the phone book named James Buffett) and left a message saying "hope your methods work out for you". Lol, what a sucker!
     
  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Why is this an issue only for the USMNT? How many B2 starters are there on Germany’s team? Championship for England? Where are the USL players for the USMNT?

    Your previous point comparing Vela to everyone else in MLS is a strawman. If someone is Best XI or a up-and-coming young prospects, an argument can be made. You don’t see people arguing about Morales vs Pomykal (although an argument can be made in either direction).

    Conversely, you’re effectively saying that Bradley and Trapp are basically at the B1 level (not a material upgrade from morales to them) and many of us are calling BS on it. Let’s see where both Bradley and Trapp end up next year now that they’re available on a free transfer - I guess you think that not only could they be in B1 but they could also gain rotational minutes there for a midtable team.
     
  5. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Mr. Funkel appreciates your vote of confidence
     
  6. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    You are being silly. If Morales gets benched again are you then wrong and Bradley or Trapp is better?

    Why not just use our eyes?
     
  7. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    If we had important games this year, I’d certainly be calling in Chandler and FJ. Their issue is age and fragility - they can play at a high level (above the rest of our pool) when healthy but not for 2022
     
  8. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Nope. We’ve seen with our eyes that Morales can clearly play at the B1 level and hold his own vs. Leverkusen. If another player is better than him at Fortuna, it doesn’t change that fact nor would it if steffen was benched.

    Conversely, we’ve seen that Trapp and Bradley absolutely cannot handle faster speed opponents and we have zero evidence of most MLS players having the ability to do that. I’d give Pomykal the chance to show if his game translate but MLS simply isn’t comparable to playing in the B1.

    I have no idea what your eyes show you when Bradley and Trapp play against good opponents (above MLS level).
     
  9. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    I don't rate Trapp at all. Bradley is running out of gas.

    But we have a number of kids I'd rather give a shot to. But as I said, I have no trouble calling up Morales. But the idea he is "50x" better or that him playing DM on a 65 GA club "clearly makes him better" is just a method of analysis I don't agree with. I mean, I get people want to argue other things with me than I'm arguing - and I get we won't see whose right unless and until he gets called up, but my eyes tell me Morales is fine for a call-up, won't be out of his league, is better than Trapp and more mobile than MB, but don't expect magic, no matter how much Warren Buffet reminds someone of Freidheim Funkle.
     
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  10. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Please show where anyone, anyone, has said Morales is "50x better" or to "expect magic" from Morales. I'll wait patiently.

    The only thing you constantly want to argue is that your eyes are better than the management at Dusseldorf.

    Great, we don't know. You're "keenly analytical" but also "trust your eyes".

    Nobody is opposed to youth. People are opposed to seeing MB/WT get constant chances despite what is likely a better (not "50x" better or "magically" better) player.

    Apparently you don't disagree with any of this. So I suppose there's nothing to argue here?
     
  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Playing in a better league is a great data point and something to listen to. And Morales certainly deserves another call-up, as does anyone consistently starting at that level.

    But it's not always right.

    Jozy was a better striker than Bobby Wood when Bobby was starting in the Bundesliga.

    Tyler Adams was a better CDM than Morales when he was still in MLS.

    Beasley was a better international player when he was outside of Top 5 leagues than several top 5 league players.

    Landon Donovan was a lot better than many counterparts in better leagues.

    It's not super common, but it's not completely uncommon. Someone playing at that level should get a shot.

    But pretending there's a completely efficient market where top league scouting staffs and decision makers don't make mistakes is incorrect. It happens.
     
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  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    @yurch10

    It's like a page back.
     
  13. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Ok, that's fair. But how many would argue Morales is a much better defender than WT/MB? Overall player? Better, sure, but not a great deal.

    Everyone is on board it seems with Morales getting his chance again, which is really all i care about (especially when MB/WT get brought up again instead of Morales).

    And as I've said many times, yes, I agree, there are outliers. Just as there are a few players in the Japanese baseball league who are better than MLBers. But if you're starting a team, you're not looking for outliers. You're looking for the best players, who are in the best leagues, playing (MLB/Bundesliga). Outliers are great. But the fact basically every one of our starters in BL/EPL is an autostarter for our team, while Morales can't make the top 40 players, is extremely questionable, to the point of something being amiss.
     
  14. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    If I can show you where someone has said that, do a I get a pony?

    Peeps be like bugging on this thread. Making me laugh my ass off.
     
  15. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Let’s be specific here. You mention that Morales is “more mobile than” Bradley right after saying that Morales is better than Trapp. Do you think Bradley is as good of a player as Morales? Are they roughly comparable in your mind? Could Bradley get as many minutes for a midtable B1 club as Morales has and will? Where do you expect Bradley to sign next year?

    It’s fine if you think bradley = Morales but you’ve danced around this issue for a while.
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yeah, no overall disagreement. Just felt like people were talking past each other for the most part.

    Morales deserves a chance, as does anyone that's reached his level versus our player pool.

    There's still room at some point for relative player eval, but I think it's totally fair that playing at this level = chance.

    The only other thing with Morales is that his age is borderline for 2022 ... and yes, Bradley is beyond borderline. But from Berhalter's perspective (and no, I know not yours), he brings USMNT experience Morales lacks.

    Either way, there needs to be a plan for CDM. I am curious if Berhalter has already decided it's too late / too hard / too Adams dependent for the CM/RB experiment and he's already slated for there or not.
     
  17. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    I've been quite clear from my first post. I think Morales, at this moment, is a little bit "better" than Bradley. He's more mobile but is not a better passer and probably equal in holding ability (not as good if MB were the MB of a few years ago, but MB's lack of mobility affects his holding ability.) But my point is and has been - consistently - that I don't think Morales will significantly improve the USMNT overall, and I would prefer that we try to integrate more younger players in the CDM/CD/Holding/Deeplying areas.

    I've not once said "Don't call up Morales" or "he'll make the team worse." I just don't think - even though the legendary Friedhelm Funkel (the brilliant coach who has dropped out of the B1 with Hertha, coached Bobby Wood at B2 1860 - and got fired, among other firings) has him in his 1st team - that Morales particular skill-set is going to make the US that much better.

    I've even been very specific that if Beerholder wants to move to more Arena-esque dedicated DCM with a holding/deeplying playmaker and allowing our outside mids to be our "#10" ACMs - (like LD and Demps have been at times) Morales could help us not lose some games.

    But I don't think he's that much of an upgrade, and I just don't believe that simply because a guy is getting starts from a journeyman coach in any given league it automatically means he must be a big upgrade.

    And again, I'd love to be wrong. It would be awesome if 29 year-old Al could command the US midfield and organize an effective defense and transition game that propels us forward. The "MB role" in the US set-up tends to be one of the most demanding spots in the line-up. If Morales could kill it there that would be great. I just happen to believe, watching him play, that he won't really upgrade the transition/distribution that much. I'm kinda confused why that is such a heretical opinion, but no matter, it just happens to be my opinion. And, of course, I'm no Funkel.
     
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  18. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    BTW, this kinda snide BS shyte is the funniest BS snide shyte.

    I'm sure an apology is forthcoming.

    "I'll wait patiently..." lmfao.
     
  19. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Thanks for the clarity.

    We can agree to disagree but Morales is a far better defender while being equal to Bradley in distribution.

    If he is played instead of Bradley/Trapp, we don’t have to compensate around the field for the porous defense. To me, that’s a huge gain

    At the end, I do believe that a proven “journeyman” major leaguer is much better than average minor leaguers. Doesn’t matter what sport, it’s a truism.
     
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  20. EXALIFTIN

    EXALIFTIN Member+

    Nov 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well he will get his chance, called up for September friendlies
     
  21. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    The good news is we may now get a chance to see. Which is great.

    Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I watched a lot of Bundesliga last year, and Fortuna/Morales is not elegant in transition. Hopefully with the US he is cleaner.
     
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  22. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Agreed - let hope we get to see him on the field.

    It appears you are focused on transition while I am more focused on defensive shape. I also think that a McKennie - Morales midfield pairing will suffer none of the obvious problems we’ve seen with the Bradley/Weston pairing during the gold cup. That pairing simply doesn’t work except against minnows.
     
  23. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member

    Mar 9, 2012
    I think everyone on this board would like GGG to just plug Adams into the dedicated DM spot and build from there. I think every non-US coach or pundit would say that’s an easy decision. It would be a huge upgrade on both Bradley and hypothetical Morales.

    But apparently we don’t live in that universe.

    So we’re here picking between Bradley and Morales (well, WE are because I think the folks at USSoccer still have Trapp as the heir apparent). It’s important to integrate the better player because we cannot take qualifying for granted. Our most talented players are EXTREMELY young and Couva happened.

    Besides Adams, it’s not like there’s a promising American DM prospect out there for 2022. Wes is not a 6. There’s a reason a more astute manager is playing Mascarell behind him. Pomykal is also not a 6. Russell Canouse? Guy couldn’t hack it at a level that Morales surpassed. I rate Chris Durkin but he can’t even beat out Canouse at this point.

    And does anyone believe that Nagbe should play back there?

    I don’t think Morales is a world beater. But he’s the best we have and it’s just dumb not to play the best especially when he’s younger than 30. Do you really think any American not named Tyler Adams would be a better 6 in two years?

    We need to win.
     
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  24. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    I've stated as much. As I said in at least two posts, if the US "reverts" to a more dedicated DCM of the Pablo/Armas/Clark/Edu/Beckerman type, and rely on a deeper lying CAM/Holding player, letting the outside mid transition to AMs (like LD, Demps tended to do - a style that will work for CP and Boyd, btw) that Morales is a good choice. But if Beerholder expects him to do the MB or JJ-style work of collecting, turning and distributing a lot, he's not going to work out as well as I think some hope.

    I think I've been pretty consistent on this throughout the thread. I'm fine with him being called in, but I don't think he's the "50x" upgrade some hope for/expect. I'm more interested in finding a partner for McKinnie who is more comfortable on the ball if we are going to try to keep playing the short pass out of the CD to a holding MF who launches a ground attack. Wes is a really good all around player, but he's not as polished at carrying the ball and QBing the attack (yet) as we need if we continue to try to play that way. And, to my eye, neither is Morales. I'm not yet sure who is going to step up, aside from Adams, in the "next gen" and I think we really need to be looking for a couple of those players.
     
  25. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    That poor guy is going to play with roldan and lletget I feel for him.
     

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