Again, once again, PLEASE understand:we're just not that good USA v ES [R]

Fond memories of 1930

Mexico sucked in 1930 --- 0-3-0 4-13 and last place

Brazil, France, Belgium, Romania, Paraguay, Chile, Peru, and Bolivia did not make it to the semifinals.

USA was one of three seeded teams?!

South American teams 9-7-0 in group stage
UEFA 4-5-0
CONCACAF 2-3-0 thanks to Mexico


USA beat both Paraguay 3-0 (two goals by McGhee and one by Patenaude) and Belgium (hat trick for Patenaude --- first hat trick in World Cup) to win its group.

It had the best record in the group stage 2-0-0 6-0.

USA vs Argentina and Uruguay vs Yugoslavia in the semis.

And then USA was edged 6-1 (late goal by Brown) by Argentina in the semifinals. Most BS posters asserted at the time that the defense wasn't all that bad and with a little bit of luck and better refereeing from the line judge who was from Mexico...

The final in Montevideo, Uruguay (93,000 fans) --- Uruguay 4-2 Argentina with three late goals --- certainly was the most exciting final in Jules Rimet Cup history up until then.

It probably was the most exciting World Cup final of all time.

 

Yes but only 1 of the 2 top teams get a spot, then two top points out of 2nd place teams then playoff. Not like qualifying CONCACAF lots of quality teams get washed out.

 

The difference doesn't make any difference. You start out a thread with an ad hominem sarcastically referring to anyone who disagrees with you or Bob as a "braintrust." And you only get worse from there.

I simply decided that instead of hiding behind the shroud of a blanket ad hominem, I'd continue this thread's tone and take it right to the source making it as clear as day - you've been demonstrably wrong so many times it's hard to keep track. So you can drop the heir of superiority. When it comes to soccer knowledge, you're in the fray along with the rest of us.

The thing is, as you should know, I love talking soccer with you when you take the blinders off and ad hominems out of the discussion. So when you're ready to engage in a civil, objective discussion, I am too.

 

Understood...

 

You're being obtuse.
- I think Dom Kinnear is a better tactical manager than Bob Bradley and has an unquestionably better record in the same league. In MLS, the only thing that matters is championships, and Dom own Bob. Would he be "considerably"
better? Using past performances as an indication, he'd get better results than Bob. Are those blinders, or logic-based comparison you just don't happen to like because it doesn't fit your filter?

- I used the Spain comparison to debunk various myths on BigSoccer and offer a comparison to how we play because (a) I know many people in their organization and how they focused on developing the national team, (b) I think how Spain went about player development and their national program can be an instructive model for the US, and (c) when you measure yourself against the world's best, you see where the gaps are. Saying that I said we can play like Spain is an idiotic statement. Stupid doesn't do it justice.

- How many players on El Salvador's NT are in MLS? Because if they were good enough to be, they would be. This is a team that tried to poach Arturo Alvarez, who cannot get a sniff with the US. They are at predominantly an ~A League level. Not blinders. Reality.

- Ad Hominem - I do not think that term means what you think it means. It is literally translated as "against the person" - which is precisely what your "braintrust" quote was. So quit being a hypocrite about it. You attacked the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with you. You were responded to in kind.

Game time. Hopefully we're just good enough to beat T&T. Hopefully your next post game thread will be A LOT better than this one.

 

As I do every single time someone brings this up, I call shenanigans once again.

Why is it that everyone who makes the statement "the US couln't qualify out of UEFA (or CONMEBOL, for that matter)" forget one simple fact:

Qualifying is home and home!

And there are very few...VERY FEW...teams that can come on to US soil and be confident of taking three points.

You can count them on your fingers.

Doesn't mean some of the rest won't steal one now and again...

But seriously...If somehow we took Holland's place in Group 9, we'd have no shot at qualifying?

Scotland? Iceland? Macedonia?

Sorry, I'm not buying that one.

 

I was referring to the performance at the WC. I said -- a couple of times, iirc -- that not every UEFA team qualifies for round 2.

And at least one C'caf nation qualifies for round 2 every time.

YOU MADE THE COMPARISON!!!

And what we're talking about is to bottom of UEFA vs. the top of C'caf.

My point is that the top of C'caf is fairly competitive, not a bunch of minnows like some ppl -- specifically YOU -- make them out to be.

 

It's not the bottom of the group you have to worry about it's the top 2, only one of which is a automatic qualify.

Spain, yes Spain, had to playoff in last cycle.

 

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but you I could almost swear you said that CONACAF top always perform better than the 10+ UEFA qualifiers.

I then pointed out that that was incorrect, as both the 12th and 13th place UEFA qualifier made it to the round of 16 last cycle, which kinda disproves your point, no?

It's not difficult to see, it's at the bottom of the link I provided.

 

Best April Fools thread.....EVER!

 

We goin nuts up in heeea!!! Watch the game outside if possible...geez.

 

"He's just not that into you."

"We're just not that good."

Honestly, I believe the popular book/movie/saying has sooooo seeped into the national psyche that it's difficult for poster's to take Karl's critiques the way that he has presented them.

If you take an objective look at what he's said, it hasn't been that bad. But the title set the tone, and I deeply believe that the wording exacerbated the overall negative tone.

 

Except Spain isn't in Group 9.

The other three are. So's Norway. They're last.

Do you seriously think the US would have no chance which is what the poster I quoted said "the US would never make it to the Cup...doesn't matter which group" if we were with:

Norway
Macedonia
Scotland
Iceland


Which is exactly the group the Dutch are romping all over...and Scotland is 2nd?

No chance at all?

To borrow from the title of the thread...we may not be that good...but we are at least that good...

 

I don't understand he logic behind the lineup. Donovan is a forward, he's proved so many times he's less effective on the wing. Take Ching out and give Altidore a chance to work with Landy.

 

Provide a link to WC results in which 13 UEFA nations have qualified for the elimination round.

• 10 nations got to round 2 in 2006
• 8 in 2002
• 9 in 1998
• 9 in 1994
• 10 in 1990

In those years, UEFA was NOT 100% in qualifying for round 2. In all those years, C'caf had 1 or 2 teams in round 2. Therefore, the top C'caf teams outperformed the bottom UEFA teams -- the ones who got eliminated in the opening round.

Again: top C'caf teams > teams 11+ in UEFA.

This isn't really that difficult of a concept.

 

Complete, Utter, Amazing StrawMan. I have never suggested that all UEFA teams get through to the second round. Please..argue against the points I actually made.

I'm not sure if on purpose or accident but you are ignoring the context of the question and answer. The topic was teams in UEFA and how the US would fare. I gave some stats on how UEFA teams had performed previously, you said that CONCACAF Always outperforms the 10+ UEFA teams. So taking you at your word I went back to see how the literal 11,12 and 13 teams performed. Not cherry picking anyone who did not qualify but the actual 11-13 teams. Once I did that I realized you were wrong, the top CONCACAF teams did not perform better than the 10+ (11,12 and 13th) team as 2 of three made it to the round of 16. You can re-define the 10+ teams as anyone who gets eliminated (silly argument) if you like, but that would ignore the context of the entire conversation. Many teams who don't even make it through UFEA qualifying due to the nature and completion of that qualification could win CONCACAF.