** A New Era - Rebuilding the Azzurri

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by Stamos, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. Stamos

    Stamos Member

    Apr 6, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    There is a Premier league bidding war on the horizon for Jorginho. Mourinho covets him, so does City and Liverpool.
    Verratti might see a pricey move as well out of France meanwhile.
    Both highly sought out. Gives us faith in our midfield moving forward .
     
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  2. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    If Totti would have emerged in this era, he would have been already poached by Real or Barca the same way Monaco poached Pellegri. Same with Nesta, Maldini etc. etc. The talent goes where the money is.

    Donnarumma made his debut at 16 and became Milan's #1 keeper in no time. You wanna know why? Because he's the only true fuoriclasse that italy has produced besides Verratti in recent years. He's going to move to PSG for a high value because he's worth it.

    Spot are earned. And if you need special league laws to guarantee your playing time, guess what? You're not good.
     
  3. indestructible

    indestructible Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Jan 14, 2007
    Mercato Professor
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #303 indestructible, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
    Here are some questions to ask yourself next time you're evaluating player talent :

    (y / n)

    - Is the player a regular starter for his club side?

    - Is the player an integral part of his club. Does the club suffer in his absence? (most important)

    - Is the club competing for a domestic title or a spot in a European competition ?

    - Is the club competing for a major European Championship (CL, EL)?

    - Has the player won any championship? (club level and international)

    - Has the player won any individual accolades (scoring title, MVP, Best XI etc.) ?

    Bonus: What other active players are comparable in the player’s position?

    Apply this to some players and you start to understand their real worth
     
  4. totti fan

    totti fan Red Card

    Jun 24, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Nascent Italian talent is not getting the opportunity to develop to international standard b/c Italian clubs are looking towards seasoned foreigners to fill those roles.

    Using simple arithmetic.

    There are less Italians on Serie A rosters then there would be if there was a rule mandating greater restrictions on foreigners.
    What players are rostered are getting less playing time.
    The problem gets even worse when you look for Italian players in important positions and at big clubs.

    Consequently there are a smaller pool of Italians available for NT selection which statistically diminishes the opportunity to select better players and a stronger overall team.

    Why is this happening?

    Clubs are not forced to pick x number of Italians.
    Young Italians now potentially have to compete with every other player in the European Union for a spot on top of extra players outside the EU when that was never the case.

    So its less players getting less playing team getting less time at important clubs etc.

    Is it just a case that Italy isn't producing as many young talented players as they used to?

    Promising young players are getting less playing time, particularly at big clubs. Back in the day the big Italian clubs picked the best Italian talent and developed them into great players.

    Regardless of how talented a youngster you are. There is a gap b/w senior and development football. Young stars getting less time on the pitch translates to wasted potential.

    Also, not all promising players become greats and not all international standard players necessarily stand out as youngsters. Once you start culling these numbers down you statistically reduce your chances of identifying talent.
     
  5. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    #305 Calcio Pauly, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
    The Germans did a simple thing, Tavecchio copied it to some degree. Certain # of prima vera products must be on the roster of their club team each year. The club's are no obliged to play them, but they need to graduate them. This forces many things to come into play, namely finding and creating that talent at the local levels. This is good. It doesn't circumvent any stupid EU laws.

    Since Italy has remained fairly competitive in recent years at youth level, there's no reason why they can't be competitive at the men's. It also means that producing the potentials consistently is already happening.

    There isn't the same quantity of world class talent on the starting 11 as there once was. It's not completely dry either. So agreed with Indestructible in that a Totti like talent is cracking the mens lineup everytime, but there aren't many around. The good news is that you don't need 11 Totti's to win a cup. Just one, on a broken leg could be good enough ;)

    Good to great talent still needs to be nurtured after graduating from the prima vera, and it's true that the mens teams are reluctant to risk nurturing these guys in place of already nurtured bought talent. My team passed up on Cristante for Montolivo for example.

    That's a problem. You don't need a starting 11 of world class talent, you need very good talent, a few role guys, and a system that compliments their talents. Not one that tries to force square pegs into round holes.

    We're losing out on that nurtured late bloomer and the younger prospect that can't be rushed.

    The reason there were many such examples before is that in pre-bosman times, every team in every league needed to have 8 of their own on every starting lineup. That evened the playing field all around. It did. No City's, PSGs and Madrid's allowed to buy whomever they want, whenever they want for obscene money. You had 3 spots to use. Use them wisely.

    Consequently, there was plenty of space for local talent nurturing and only the very best foreigners arrived. Local talent benefited from playing time and playing along side the best, not the average journeymen foreigner.

    Globalism effectively crept into world soccer with the Bowman ruse, and some of the very best leagues in the world now had to further develop talents from elsewhere.


    To become competitive, we need a coach with clear ideas and a long term plan and one that understands our identity. Not one who wants to copy someone else followed by a short term coach and then another with no ideas, a complete train wreck.

    Spend da monies for the right guy, give him 5 years and some say into the day to day development of prospects at their clubs and a bit more time to prepare them.


    Edit:

    When Italy failed in 66 there was a universal foreigner ban imposed. I think it was 12 years, someone correct me if I'm wrong. The national team went on to win 68, vice champions in 70, 4th in 78, champions in 82.

    Plenty of talent was developed in that time period.
     
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  6. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    Recently a former Azzurri star, I forget who, complained that the primavera was full of Eastern Europeans and Africans. So even if every team has to have 4 primavera players it doesn't mean they will be Italian.
     
  7. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    True, and the same is true in Germany. Many want to see us copy the German changes and that was one of them. I don't agree that we need to be like Germany. Germany can be Germany. I think we need to remember what made Italy, Italy.
     
  8. Alex101

    Alex101 Member

    Mar 15, 2017
    When the ******** did Juventus turn into Inter Milan, before they would pounce on players like Barella and Chiesa, now they are rumored with everyone but an Italian player.
     
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  9. UdineseFan98

    UdineseFan98 Member

    Mar 12, 2017
    St. Catherines, ON
    Club:
    Udinese Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I mean they just signed the most gifted technical italian player last summer is Bernadeschi
     
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  10. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Ignore the rags as they like to create news, not report it.
     
  11. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    its kind of like getting into a fight.. the one that doesn't say anything is the toughest SOB

    the transfers you continually hear about are the ones that probably aren't going to happen
     
  12. UdineseFan98

    UdineseFan98 Member

    Mar 12, 2017
    St. Catherines, ON
    Club:
    Udinese Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Corriele put out a potential Mancini Italy XI

    Insinge-immobile-Balo

    Verratti-Pellegrini-Jorghino

    Crisito-Chiellini-Bonucci-Darmian

    Donnorumma
     
  13. Italy-Azzurri-Fan

    Nov 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Pellegrini in the center, and Jorginho on the right??? Terrible. And Balotelli on the wing? I hope we don't see this. and Criscito? LOL. We have so many younger full backs that have much more potential than Criscito. Darmian shouldn't be starting either. The idea is alright, but we cannot be playing players out of position. That is one of the things that costed us World Cup qualification.
     
  14. UdineseFan98

    UdineseFan98 Member

    Mar 12, 2017
    St. Catherines, ON
    Club:
    Udinese Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    kind of unrelated, but this is the shit that pisses me off

    992736816133533696 is not a valid tweet id
     
  15. Deleted User x

    Deleted User x Member+

    Mar 21, 2006
    All the more reason to cheer against England. It's great when those same pundits have to talk about why England failed again. Bastards.
     
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  16. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I had one English bobblehead tell me that I wasn't going to ruin his moment of glory when Italy went out. Did you catch that? His moment of glory. :laugh: what was I doing you ask? Not much, just trying to buy my latte and not engage him in a long conversation. I laughed and walked away. How can you not feel sorry for him. I surmised that his wife and kids hate him.
     
  17. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Wait for it, around the 40 second mark ....

     
  18. UdineseFan98

    UdineseFan98 Member

    Mar 12, 2017
    St. Catherines, ON
    Club:
    Udinese Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    That triggered me. **** you Ryan Reynolds
     
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  19. Alex101

    Alex101 Member

    Mar 15, 2017
    Come on it's a nice little jab, Italy deserve it anyway
     
  20. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    It's important to poke the Italian bear at this time. There'll be plenty of jabs this summer.
     
  21. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Do some of you not understand Deadpool sarcasm? It was a compliment.
     
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  22. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    If you're asking me, I didn't watch it. Just referring to the beating that the national team is currently taking in the media and will continue to during the cup. I'm welcoming it.
     
  23. UdineseFan98

    UdineseFan98 Member

    Mar 12, 2017
    St. Catherines, ON
    Club:
    Udinese Calcio
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Same. When we inevitably get back our glory, I am going to rub it in.
     
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  24. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    so Berardi scored a nice one today to all but knock Inter out of champions league for next year... any chance he moves to a bigger club in the summer and gets back on track... he is only 23 after all still
     
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  25. Gilbertsson

    Gilbertsson Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Apr 1, 2012
    Geneva
    Club:
    Toronto Croatia
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #325 Gilbertsson, Jul 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    Very emotional fragments of full documentary called One to Eleven, that embraces majority of previous World Cups, since 1974 maybe.



    This video concerns Roberto Baggio also




     
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