USSF credentials are an example - I have clearly stated that the "Math" teacher doesn't cut it. So if you put 2 and 2 together I think it's obvious that there has to be some standards - if you want to reform HS soccer in a way where it could start working better and along side DA for those top players. You could easily have expanded on my response instead of using to shit all over USSF. I mean we all get it - you don't like them and I think we all recognize that there are problems at the top end for sure. Sometimes it's difficult having conversations with you.
"1. Coaches with USSF credentials and qualified experience - over the math teacher." This type of comment is at the root of the club soccer snobbery. Imagine if someone said this about pointy football. Boy that guy cant coach football he is just the "Ag teacher". One would not realize that the Ag teacher played D2 football. Judge the coach by what he brings to the table the "he is just a teacher" is just grabbing the lowest hanging fruit. Imagine if I said that club soccer coach is just the owner of a lawn maintenance business. Build bridges to the high school coaches not burn them.
Girls in just my opinion are smarter then boys. I have 2 of each except on who they pick to fall in love with All those brains go out the window when it comes to love. On foreign born players a lot of them think they don't need a license to be a good coach. A guy like Franz Beckenbauer won a World Cup with no coaching license. I lot of coaches from The Netherlands think like that as well. I think if your a former player who is young and never had kids of your own and start coaching kids your going to make mistakes. You have not been around long enough to know how to reach people. You can't reach every player in the same way even college age players. People are all different some need pressure put on them to get better. Some just need a pat on the head. Everyone is different every parent with kids knows that. So I think some kind of coaching license can help with that. You don't want to destroy a player to win a game. You can destroy a player just telling him the wrong thing.
Yeah, it’s all my fault….It’s not my job to expand on your response…we clearly see things differently when it comes to this issue…you claim I have chip on my shoulder regarding US Soccer and the DA program …perhaps there is some truth to that…but you have an extreme bias and ax to grind against HS Soccer and if you don’t see that, then you are not very self-aware… I have some strong opinions, you have some strong opinions…it’s all good… HS can’t complete with the DA IF the USSF isn’t open to it…and they aren’t…period, plain and simple…the USSF has no interest in reforming or improving HS soccer…they have already made the decision to bypass and marginalize it… We don’t need national standards or standardization to produce elite athletes in other sports, like football, baseball, basketball, volleyball, etc…local communities are self-motivated, at all levels, to produce quality, elite players, without a national, omnipotent governing body micromanaging everything they do and stealing their away their best players at their earliest convenience… I believe we are going to get their someday with soccer as well…we would get there a lot sooner if USSF would stop trying to force feed us a foreign-based developmental model that completely ignores how different our sporting culture and traditions are from much of the rest of the world… Some of the brightest minds and best coaches in youth football, baseball and basketball are also just HS math teachers…
I realize the MATH TEACHER is essentially a place holder for "insert teacher here" but ironically it hits close to home for me. My wife is a high school math teacher and also a high school coach, in diving. Due to personal choices around family she has essentially forgone the club coaching scene and as such gets those "just the math teacher" looks and comments; which to the ill informed would look to be the case. The reality is her diving resume is better than at least 90% of the high school coaches in the state and probably better than 75% of the college coaches in the Midwest (although mine is better and I won't let her forget that). I think as soccer has grown in the last 20 years the resume of the MATH TEACHER has as well. I think opinions have been slow to catch up. I can say my son's high school coach played NCAA division I and has been inducted into the Illinois Soccer Hall of Fame. I know this is just one example (and they are a perennial state title contender) and is probably on the extreme end of the spectrum but the fact that he generates the bulk of his income through a high school education career does not in any way make him unqualified to coach soccer.
On math have you ever tried to help your kids with math using common core? I can't help my Grand daughter doing it that way. My wife is a lawyer. She has a hard time doing math that way.
Yes your son's played for a kid who played div 1 college. Was he a club player before that. Maybe he was good in math and used that resume to play div 1. I know a guy Mario who I played against in adult club soccer. He was a very good mid. He became principal of a public HS. He decided to coach both HS girls and boys teams at his HS sheapshead bay. He was a very good player who was bad at training kids. Both teams were full of bad players.
@mwulf67 To clarify: never played for SHG, I played against SHG. Your opinion is clearly based on your small town, small market experiences. You don't think the "bottom half" of a DA pool is strong? Here's an example: and I admit, this example is VERY early in the development process, but check Sockers FC and Sockers Naperville's U12 DA results last fall. Sockers FC went 12-2-2, and Sockers Naperville went 12-5-3. That's one club in two locations, separated by less than 30 miles, with over 48 players in the platform. Playing against clubs like Chicago Fire and FC United (formerly Chicago Magic) regularly. On top of that, between Fire, FCU, and Sockers there were more than 20 players from U12-14 selected to National Training Centers. From there, 11 went to formal YNT training camps. No depth in the DA? Please. Just because one small market club isn't as deep doesn't mean the whole program is. Why does the DA exist? http://www.ussoccerda.com/overview-what-is-da . Not sure how you come to the conclusion that the DA isn't about putting players into college...Where does it say otherwise? Who said it's a closed system? Statistically, the majority of players in college (when you count D1, D2, D3, NAIA, NJCAA) did not play in the DA. Get your facts straight. You keep comparing soccer to other sports. Why? The pathway for college football is completely different than college hockey, it doesn't make one better than the other. @keeper dad How has US Soccer micromanaged anything? They still sanction USYS, AYSO, and US Club Soccer even though they fought tooth and nail against the birth year model and their player development initiatives. All US Soccer has done is provide a youth platform of competition that mirrors (as best of their ability) other national associations in the DA. No ones forcing anyone to participate in it, and no ones holding a gun to anyone playing HS soccer. It's still a choice.
I don't disagree that US Soccer has provided a platform across all levels of play, in many cases quite a bit better than the national body of other sports which often times leave early U Little development to the city park system, YMCA, etc. with no oversight. This is a big plus for soccer. Where I do disagree is that when a soccer player reaches a certain level US Soccer does begin to micromanage/control everything for that player where most, if not all other national bodies at least accept the HS model. When you look across the spectrum of Olympic and World Championship athletes from the US, in any sport except soccer, close to 100% of the athletes competed in their chosen sport (if it was offered) for their high school, and it seems to have worked out pretty well. These organizations have found a way to work within the framework of HS sports to produce success on the world stage. I don't disagree that soccer is "different" or "European" or whatever word you want to use but to use a soundbite "with teamwork everybody wins" there just needs to be a way to find the teamwork aspect with USSF and NFHS. The perspective that having these top quality soccer players playing HS will lessen the experience for everyone else is also flawed. The thought that "give the ball to Billy and let him take over" lessens the experience for everyone else on the team is very situational. Do you think that Lebron James' high school teammates cry over their lack of production because he took over games? I bet they sit at the bar and tell the stories about when they tossed him the alley oop or he gave them an assist. That is probably more meaningful than if they had scored 20 more points their senior year. When you know HS is as far as you are going to get in a sport the state title or playing with Lebron is going to carry over much longer than being the last guy in off the bench, as they say it all looks the same in the record book.
I will try and write this quickly before the hayseeds gunk up my keyboard… I never said the bottom half of the DA was not strong…I said in this thread they are above average and in other similar posts/threads I have said very, very good… My point is, if you look at any A Team and B Team scenario, given a large enough player pool, the bottom half of the A Team will be virtually indistinguishable from the top half of the B Team. This is due to a couple of factors, none of which anything to do with someone being wrong or dishonest …. First, talent is somewhat subjective; talent evaluators value different things, may see different things, may simply be bias in subtle ways, etc… Second, no coach, even a DA coach, builds a team solely on individual talent without regard to other factors such as need, position, play style, and yes, even physical attributes like size and speed…In the back of the mind of every coach is the need create a balanced and viable team…even a development focused team needs balance and viability to maximize development. I don’t see why that concept would change just because you call the A team, in this case, an Academy Team…. I would love to see those numbers….seriously… Including all divisions?…yeah, maybe…even without seeing the numbers, I will amend my statement to read a close system/path to big-time college soccer … But I would really love to see those numbers, especially over last 5-10 years, to see the impact the DA has had on college recruitment and placement….my guess would be there has been increasing impact over those years and that impact will continue to grow, especially given the USSF’s plan to expand the DA program….so, it’s not just where we are today, but where we are headed tomorrow… In their own words, The DA program is designed to produce the next generation of National Team players. And let's be honest, we are talking about senior players for THE national team….And developing NT players is all about developing Pro Players…College soccer is not path to the pros, ergo, not the path to the MNT… Answer me this honestly, does US Soccer want its top, most promising 18 years old DA “grads” going off to play college ball, even at the highest level? https://www.socceramerica.com/article/56234/development-academy-players-hit-college-roadblock.html Hockey is still a relatively limited, regionally based. niche sport…soccer is and should be the very opposite of that…football, baseball, basketball, volleyball, etc. are equally all very open, accessible, nation-wide, populist sports in this country, which is why they should compare favorably or similarly to soccer… Anyway, off to feed the chickens...
Again it's a discussion. Credentials that show a level of education - and more importantly continued education would work. USSF happens to be the prevalent organization in the US for this (that I know of) so I threw that out there. My main point was that it was not the math teacher looking for an extra $6000.00 per year. As far as simply judging a coach by what he brings to the table - well that's part of it. Teachers have credentials. More and more schools are now requiring continued education. So why would that not be valid for coaches?
Okay - I get that. I think... You are saying that America should have their own form of Soccer and leave it at that? If that's the case then it's the core of our disagreement. MLS, sponsors and so on will never want that because they know that the youth of soccer are watching FC Barca and so on. USSF wants to push the US to compete and thusly being late to the game, has chosen to adopt foreign style play. Now if you have a reason or means to become competitive on the international level by creating and celebrating our own form of soccer - I would love to hear it. Could be for an excellent thread (no sarcasm intended).
I don't consider anything other then tennis to be a word sport that has the reach and co-exists with the US like soccer. Certainly not basketball, baseball, volleyball or football. Hockey has become a club sport for many high schools because of costs. That leaves soccer in the unique position of actually leading not only in disparity between club and h/s, but also as a potential leader in how to close the gap. Soccer is one of the few big sports we suck at - on a global level (less the ladies but that's changing as well - more of a cultural issue). We can have at it on our own, I don't know - maybe change some rules and steal the name and call it football. Or we can take bits from elswhere where there has been success - i.e. the rest of the developed world pretty much. No other high school sports are really in that position. And it's because of this, that the gap is wide. I would argue that if we were playing catch up with basketball - that you would have a very similar scenario. So I guess I would be sincerely interested in how these sports - as you say, "have found a way to work within the framework of HS sports to produce success" at all." Examples would be helpful.
On the girl's side how is D.A. going to be an upgrade on ECNL...? (and I am no fan of ECNL)... It isn't... because the clubs will just use the same coaches doing the same things, using mostly the same players.... Meanwhile the rest of the world is rapidly catching up on the girls/women's side and in some cases have already caught up and gone past the USA.....see the recent U 17 World Cup, U 20 world cup, Rio Olympics and The Shebelieves Cup for confirmation.....
Own form a soccer? I don’t think so…mostly because I am afraid you have taken what I am said above, turned it around, and taken it to the extreme in the other direction… I am equally not in favor nor suggesting a style, form or model that completely ignores the long history of soccer in other countries nor the importance of international soccer….as I have said in other similar threads, we have lot to learn for other countries when it comes to soccer…we need take their good ideas and best practices and incorporate them into our sporting culture as best we can, in ways that make sense to us…. Spain, Germany, Brazil, whoever, doesn’t love soccer because the produce world class soccer players and because they have won a World cup….they produce world class soccer players and win World cups because they love soccer…it’s the same reason we produce world class football, baseball, basketball, volleyball players… There is imo a misguided feeling that the US is entitled to be good at soccer and deserves a World Cup title (not just be constantly in it, which a lot of soccer countries would kill for) …a sense that we need run before we can even walk…we don’t love soccer the way those other countries do, and if we bypass High School I don’t believe we ever will….If the average American only cares about soccer every 4 years, and then only if we are doing well, then…well, that’s not the form of soccer I am hoping for in this country… We need to include HS in our development model if for no other reason than that will be where the love is found and its grassroots popularity will be grown….that is where becomes viewed as less a foreign sport and more an American one…
i have long believed there are good things and bad in almost every style. I think take the best of different styles and make that into the American style. It just takes time to do. I know a Dutch coach that believes the Dutch way is the best. No matter what you tell him he won't even talk about other ways to play. Funny thing is I know how their system is set up. He did not know some of it? He also think we should bring in a foreign coach Dutch of course for both the American men's and women's team. Also play with 4 backs that part I agree with.
Yeah it's a mess for sure. Frankly I think our success was found in our culture towards women in general - not the method in which we train. So it really was only a matter of time until the rest of the world caught up. ECNL still remains one of the most successful organizations in terms of college placement however.
I agree with all you say but in regard to the bold part. That should happen at the REC level - where soccer completely fails. The passion of the sport for both the players and parents needs to happen at a younger age. Furthermore - I seriously doubt that your varsity teams have parents who do not already understand the sport and have a passion for it - along with their player of course. Maybe the parents on the freshman or sophmore teams have a different perspective but in all - that love should already be there for most players and parents by the time they get to high school.
I cannot stand limiting style of play to just one. For us it means we usually get our pants beat by any team with a heavy South American flavor.
I don’t disagree with that on an individual level….but the “love,” passion, support I am talking about is more at a communal or societal level… March Madness starts in a few days…do you think the love and passion, that crazy interest is due to young kids playing rec basketball? I don’t. That fact that our most popular sports all have a strong foundation in HS is not a coincidence…
I am not speaking of interest in terms of popularity though. I am speaking about training players. Your example could be used for any sport really - not sure of it's relevance to the discussion. Unless I am missing something. If you are saying the popularity - or the climax of the sport is the highest at the high school level for the player, then I would agree. It is what parents and players begin to talk about by 6th/7th grade. If that's what you are on about then I move back to what I have said before in that top players in soccer can always participate in other sports to get that high school experience. I would argue that most top players are likely to be pretty good athletes and capable of playing well in other sports. Again my personal opinion is that it is up to the player - so what ever works but that's an option. That said - I have no issue in h/s and USSF moving closer to working together. I just think we can come up with more than just cutting the DA season in half.
USSF is represented by who.... Club soccer. They and people like you who just insulted teacher/coaches and tried to justify it. Thats not trying to "move together".