4 Expansion finalists announced for next 2 spots

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by newtex, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your missing quite a bit of expenses that are quite massive, and I bet in your head your guesstimate on some of the ones you did mention are probably way lower than it actually costs.

    It's crazy expensive, and you really would be shocked if you ever got to do an audit of a teams expenses. I remember when I was a teen, our local AHL franchise was almost dead and we got to see a fairly detailed financial report, some of the costs involved I'd have never imagined.
     
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  2. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are a missing a TON of costs:
    - Insurance (Health, Liability)
    - Facilities costs (Stadium and Team Facility: Utilities, grounds keeping, etc.)
    - Security
    - Management Fees (Stadium Concessionaire)
    - Taxes

    Just to name a few
     
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  3. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Sports teams definitely know how to squeeze a penny when it comes to photography!
     
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  4. The Franchise

    The Franchise Member+

    Nov 13, 2014
    Bakersfield, CA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My sister owns a nice camera. How hard could it be? :)
     
  5. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've got a Samsung Galaxy. Free sideline entry to click a few buttons? I'll take it.




    Just to be safe, I am joking. I got an expensive camera as a gift a few years ago, and despite how great I thought I was doing, my photos came out awful.
     
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  6. The Franchise

    The Franchise Member+

    Nov 13, 2014
    Bakersfield, CA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The sister in question is quite good; the sort that regularly wins amateur photo contests. If you're of average means, or even somewhat well off and you pay more than it would cost to hire someone of her skill to do family or wedding photos, I'd call into question your priorities. But if she's not at the level it would take to make a living at it.
     
  7. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was just listing off the top of my head. List wasn't supposed to be all inclusive.

    Contracts are with the league, so I would assume those insurance (player) are not team level. Groundskeeping for turf should be minimal. Concessions is a net plus and was mentioned in that column.

    The others I will give you. Though I did leave off some setoffs as well (Garber bucks, etc).

    The point is, once you start to add in the known items (or close enough): tickets, tv deals, merch deals, stadium/jersey sponsor - salaries/staff you are so many millions in the black it is difficult to see how the aren't making money.

    Hunt had a quote in Columbus that the break even point for the Crew was 15-16k, and with the Mexico game they were in the black. And that was long before the TV & Merch deals blew up. And didn't count other stadium revenue.
     
  8. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are underestimating the costs of running a professional sports organization.

    When was this quote made? If it was back in the early aughts, the landscape of MLS was drastically different then it is now.

    Just for a point of reference, The Philadelphia Union spend $4M+ each year just on their academy.

    Grounds keeping is just one aspect of Facilities upkeep and maintenance costs. Team training centers aren't cheap to run.

    Player health insurance isn't the big cost. Liability insurance on the stadiums is expensive (here's a hint, Fans can be knuckleheads, especially when Alcohol is involved (sold)).

    The TV and Merch (Adidas) deals are league wide, and that money is divided up by the number of teams. So those cuts are not that big.

    Some MLS teams may in fact be in the black, but it's not by much at the end of the day currently.
     
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  9. dredgfan

    dredgfan Member+

    MLS
    Nov 5, 2004
    Denver or NOLA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Got to hire a guy to hire a camera. Then hire a guy to judge the work and another to post in to the nets.
     
  10. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So.... when is the 2nd of the 4 going to be offered their MLS slot?
     
  11. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Yeah, worse!

    The line around the block to plunge 9 figures into an expansion fee tells you everything you need to know about the financial health of the league.

    MLS has revenue streams your local AHL franchise could have never dreamed of.
     
  12. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    I'm guessing that the offer has been made. Supposedly, there are i's to be dotted, t's to be crossed, stadiums to be located.

    That line is shorter than it appears.
     
  13. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS has expenses you never dreamed of.
     
  14. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    Both are true!
     
  15. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    The 2004 Kansas City Wizards (arguably the closest any U.S. team has come to the domestic treble) had a technical staff of 3 - or 4 if you count General Manager Curt Johnson, whose main responsibility was running the business.

    Three.

    Bob Gansler, Brian Bliss, and Tim "Let's train every goalkeeper to send all goal kicks directly out of bounds (cf. Meola, Thornton, Howard, Oshoniyi)" Mulqueen.

    In 2005, they saved money by replacing the experienced Mulqueen with the just out of school John "Mr. Cindy Parlow" Cone who did double duty as gk and fitness coach.

    No Academy coaches. No second team coaches (Bliss coached the original MLS Reserve Division games, which started in 2005). No team scouts beyond what the three coaches and Curt Johnson could do - they signed Vuk Rasovic based on video tape.

    The top D2 teams for the last five years have had as much technical overhead - usually more - than MLS teams of just over a decade ago generally had. Now it's hard to find an MLS team that hasn't separated the business and technical sides below the team president level.
     
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  17. Len

    Len Member+

    Club: Dallas Tornado
    Jan 18, 1999
    Everywhere and Nowhere.....I'm the wind, baby.
    Repped.

    Had to coach against her a couple of times when she was in HS. By "coach against her" I mean my team was on the same field at the same time.

    Based on my few dealings with her, she was always nice - and respectful......just don't be on the same field at the same time.
     
  18. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I actually saw the two of them last week at a women's lacrosse match at Duke.
     
  19. Len

    Len Member+

    Club: Dallas Tornado
    Jan 18, 1999
    Everywhere and Nowhere.....I'm the wind, baby.
    I would ask you to say 'hi' for me, but she wouldn't remember me......

    The last time our paths crossed the results were like the wilted leaves upon the autumn covered hills; resting on the frozen ground, the seeds of hope lie cold and still beneath a battered marking stone. It lies forgotten.*

    She was nice about, though.

    *I paraphrased this line from Gordon Lightfoot's "The Last Time I Saw Her".
     
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  20. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought the last time you saw her she was Greyhound-bound, but you're still waiting here, without a fear that bus will someday turn around.
     
  21. TrueCrew

    TrueCrew Member+

    Dec 22, 2003
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #746 TrueCrew, Feb 24, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
    The idea that the league merch/tv deals are insignificant is absurd. The merch deal ($700 million over 6 = $116.67 per) + the TV deal ($90 million per year). $206.67 million per year ÷ 23 = $8.98 million per year.

    The Crew's total payroll (not including Garberbucks setoffs, $1.2 in TAM per team per year + GAM) was $6,771,046.

    Those insignificant cuts cover the teams entire player payroll +$2.2 million. Throw in our TAM and the Crew are $3.4 mil in the black.

    Not counting any GAM. Without selling a ticket, a coke, a beer, any food, a parking pass, the jersey sponsorship, the stadium sponsorship, any other corporate partnerships, the local tv/radio deals, their SUM share, on site merchandise, or any money from other events (US games, Rock on the Range, other events).

    Let's take tickets off the table. I will lowball. I will say avg ticket price is $25. PSV stopped giving tix away, but lets say only 12.5k is paid per game. 17 homies n/i playoffs) = over $5.3 million more (and that is a serious lowball).

    Up to $8.8 million to the plus with league sponsorship deals (adiddas + TV only) a lowball ticket estimate, TAM, and player salaries off the table.

    Let's start to see some numbers on the other side. I know travel is a biggie. But let us end the speculation and at least try to estimate.

    Let us do travel guestimate. Say they travel 30 players & staff. Say average airline tix is around $500. 15 rooms for 1 night at $150. 15k per game for air. $2,250 for rooms. That would be $293,000 for room & air for 17 games with 1 night stays. I will throw in another $1 million for pre-season and food and underestimations by me. So $1.3 million for travel. Still puts us at +$7.5 million. With a lot of income unacounted for.

    The lease for Crew stadium is negligible, something like 80k.

    Let's see some guestimated numbers from on costs that total at least $7.5 million, and then I will start throwing in some more income.

    Plus, I know academies are expensive and the spending landscape of the league has changed. But do you honestly believe the owners would start that ball rolling & spend themselves into debt on their academies? Or would they invest an appropriate amount as the monies became available? I think #2 is more likely.

    Anywho, brass tacks time boys. Get specific.
     
  22. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    YOU ARE RIGHT!!! Frankly I'm shocked that MLS and the Hunts sold the Crew to a non-local in PSV with all of the local rich folk clamoring to buy into such a profitable business....
     
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  23. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some responses in the quote. You are still missing some massive expenses as well.


    Consider this. Sacramento has a proven success story already. They have a stadium plan ready to go, with financing all lined up. For some reason, MLS is demanding more wealth to join the ownership group. Are they demanding this because they want an extra billionaire to hang out with, or is it because the league knows that the business will continue to require direct cash injections, potentially significant, going forward?
     
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  24. gstommylee

    gstommylee Member+

    Oct 3, 2008
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Or maybe they want some stability within the ownership group. They have a right to say yes or no based on the group itself.
     
  25. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't a significant percentage of the Adidas deal non cash, ie jerseys, balls, etc?
     
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