I think a lot of the Sargent talk is missing the point. It's a pretty unique situation. He's a 17 year old kid who can't sign for Bremen until February. He just came off a calendar year where he had pretty good showings at the U-17 AND the U-20 World Cup. Calling him up happened because: 1) He had nothing to do. No club. 2) He had a tremendous season at the youth levels and we are beginning a youth movement. 3) Our forward depth is awful. A good part of the blame lies with MLS trending towards young SA talent in attacking positions. Is it really unbelievable that within the next 18 months Sargent *might* be one of our top four options? No. Don't know if I would bet on it, but the odds would be interesting. 4) Ultimately, this is about partially rewarding a kid who currently has nothing to do, but also trying to introduce someone who could be a big part of the next cycle moving forward for a pretty pointless friendly. It's really not worth getting worked up about, nor is it an embarrassment. Germany calls up youth ALL the time and gives them an introduction and a look into what the national team is about (and yes I know those players are usually playing top flight soccer).
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Sargent is our locked In starting forward by the gold cup. Wood is chronically injured. Altidore is the only other decent option and the rest are just decdidedly average
Add the young defensive CBs coming up and we are looking at a very young team. Also a lot of young mids are emerging. The issue is still, as always, who plays LB? The bigger issue though is who plays GK. That is a little unsettling for us.
Gold Cup is in Summer 2019. Sargent can't play official games until Summer 2018. How do we even know he goes right into the first team? I think we all hope he does, but take the McKennie example. He didn't go straight into the first team. He had 1 appearance within a year of signing. If Sargent only has 1 appearance within a year of signing and is our NT's starting CF, I'm not sure it'll be all that deserved. Sargent might be our starting CF in a few years, but I think Summer 2019 will come too soon.
There's two factors at play. One is our complete lack of talent at the position. The other is a probable invite to the Copa America, where probably guys like Altidore and Wood will play leaving the Gold Cup open.
I would think that we'll send our best team to the Gold Cup. After not qualifying, we can't afford to not take our confederation Championship seriously.
Of course all of Pulisic, McKennie, Sargent, CCV, EPB, etc. probably won't be available for 2020 Olympic qualifying.............................! And that's the youngsters that have already emerged, and not those on the way to Europe or ready to emerge in Europe. In the past the US U23s have been unable to get "a player or two" for qualifying. [Like Yedlin and Brooks this last time around.] I can imagine the next team being unable to get 10 players we'd want to put in our "best" U23 squad for 2020. The USSF is really gonna have to work on expanding that pool. I know we're all upset about the US failing to qualify for the World Cup. For those of us interested in USYNTers and the progression of these kids thru the pool.....................its a very exciting time. I agree with you about Sargent, by the way. He's never played a first team professional game, and won't be for a while. He's got a lot to prove before we consider him as a legitimate USMNT forward. I had no problem with him going to the Portugal camp, but let's hold our horses here with regards to the Gold Cup and official USMNT competitions. For friendlies we can expand the pool as much as we want......................
I think qualifying for the Olympics is an absolute top priority for us at this point. Given the relative lack of success of European teams at tournaments not held in Europe, plus our U-23's looking to be one of our best ever it could be a monumental opportunity for us to really begin to build cohesion among our core moving forward. I get that we won't have our best players in qualifying. I also understand there could be another joint Copa America. In that case I would recommend us making some sacrifices to our Copa squad in favor of the Olympics to creating the best two squads possible. For example any penciled in national team starter (ie: a Pulisic or a Mckennie) should play in the Copa, but let a guy where we have a ton of depth (let's say CCV) start in the Olympics as opposed to being in the squad at the Copa. It's hard for me to give concrete examples beyond that give two years is a long time in international soccer, but I think it's imperative that we use both tournaments to propel us forward and I would be a fan of calling in some older MLSers/Euro players for the Copa to give some of the younger kids to the Olympic team to maximize the experience that could be gained by our younger core.
Well also have a gold cup that year as well. But qualifying the last two times has been in March I'm pretty sure. Very doubtful Carter Vickers would be available at all. It's going to be almost 100% mls. Nevermind i misread your post duhhhhh
Maybe I'm missing something but my understanding is that it's totally irrelevant who we'd play in the Copa America (If we elect to play in it), versus the Gold Cup, because as you mention earlier in your post, club teams aren't required to release anyone for regional qualifying for the Olympics (heck, I don't think they have to be released for the Olympics themselves if memory serves), and as a result we consistently fail to get our best players in qualifying. In '12 it wasn't as noticeable because that U-23 generation was pretty poor but the '16 version wasn't much better, and we didn't get all our guys for that either. My expectation is that we'll basically be able to use domestic players, and possibly have a chance at guys that are loaned out to 2nd division sides, or just playing for lesser sides that may want the exposure a player could get from the Olympics or are just being really understanding. When I think about whom we could start two years from now in qualifying for the Olympics if it was a Fifa date (the whole regional qualifying cycle), it's a roster I'd fully expect to trounce the region, and even beat Mexico as well. However, I suspect that we'd get an even worse version of the U-20 World Cup situation where basically 4 of our best 6 players weren't released, and basically probably what, five of our best 6 U-20's did not appear at all (if you include Pulisic who'd already graduated to senior duty). I expect an even worse situation two years from now because the kids in that grouping will have graduated an even higher portion of the class to European squads. I enjoy reading the olympic thread for the focus on what people think of the kids, but when I think of the olympics themselves, I just get seriously grrr'ed off. I have a hard time imagining how we can qualify for the olympics if two years from now our situation is we're rolling out a B-C team when it comes to our top 25 or so U-23 players that are available for regional qualifying. It is just a major source of frustration. Maybe your idea is that we try to negotiate w/their European club teams, asking for olympic regional qualifying releases in exchange for us not using them in the Copa America or Gold Cup? Is that even possible Have no idea how clubs would react to that or even if we could request that as an option. This also just reinforces the frustration over what might have been at the U-20's this year if Schalke's youth team with the kids had crashed out of the playoffs earlier. What might have been if we could have gotten McKennie, Wright, and Taitague (I guess Ramos didn't want Wright), and of course I think the same problem was in place with Akale and Perez in terms of releases. Imagining the U-20 squad that went so far with McKennie firming up the central midfield, Taitague adding his speedy, link up game on the wing, and whatever Akale and Perez can bring (just haven't seen enough of them), it's hard not to imagine at least a semi-finals run.
So here's a hypothetical list of who couldn't be available to the US in Olympic qualifying. Obviouslyy things can and will change with club situations and some foreign-based players might be available or come to MLS before qualifying and some MLS players could end up abroad by qualifying. It's a pretty damn long list. Mukwelle Akale (97), M/F, Villareal Jonathan Amon (99), M, Nordsjaelland Cameron Carter-Vickers (97), D, Tottenham (on-loan to Sheffield Utd.) Luca De la Torre (98), M, Fulham Sergino Dest (00), D, Ajax Marlon Fossey (98), D, Fulham McKinzie Gaines (98), M, Darmstadt Jonathan Gonzalez (99), M, Monterrey Jonathan Klinsmann (97), GK, Hertha Berlin Weston McKennie (98), Schalke Erik Palmer-Brown (97), D, Manchester City (on-loan to... ?) Keaton Parks (97), M, Benfica Joshua Perez (98), M, Fiorentina (on-loan to Livorno) Christian Pulisic (98), M, Borussia Dortmund Jacobo Reyes (00), F, Monterrey Antonee Robinson (97), D, Everton (on-loan to Bolton) Emmanuel Sabbi (97), M/F, Hobro Josh Sargent (00), F, Werder Bremen Brady Scott (99), GK, Cologne Nick Taitague (99), M, Schalke Juan Pablo Torrres (99), M, Sporting Lokoren Timothy Weah (00), F, Paris St. Germain Haji Wright (98), F, Schalke (on-loan to Sandhausen) Gedion Zelalem (97), M, Arsenal
I think gonzalez might be available since Mexico will be releasing their players. We've always got our Mexican guys in the past. Of course none of them were any good so that might make a difference
We weren't very good prior to this upcoming generation. I think we'll do well with just a NA based group. Look at how we did at the U-17 and U-20 WC. U-17 WC we played without CB's or CM's because the coach refused to make merit based changes. The U-20 team played without at least half of the best 23, we did fine in both competitions. This is what a NA based qualifying team could look like, there is no way we'd have had this talent for a full squad of players even just five years ago. GK: Vom Steeg, Garces, Silva DF: Cannon, D. Acosta, Glad, Redding, Adams, Trusty MF: Sands, Durkin, Gonzalez, Gloster, Carleton, Pomykal, Mihailovic, Kunga FW: Ebobisse, Vazquez, Ferreira Others: Muse, Lopez, M. Robinson, Arellano, Pineda, Farfan, Lindsey, Yueill, Lindley, Lennon, Lewis, Saucedo, Fofana That team is weak at CF and has weak CB depth, but its pretty good everywhere else. We also have to remember that we are playing CONCACAF teams in qualifying. Remember how bad our qualifying team was for the U-20 WC? We had no offense, yet we won the competition.
Do you think all those guys are still domestic based 2+ years from now? Also, does FIFA consider the olympics a required release official competition? I can’t remember.
Teams are required to release U23 players for the Olympics (but not the overage players). The problem for us is that teams AREN'T required to release players for the CONCACAF U23 Championships that serve as the qualifying event. You are correct in wondering whether some of the players in the domestic lineup above will actually be in Europe in 2 plus years. Adams is chief among those. Some of the Euro based players may also come back if things aren't working out for them there. There's going to be a lot of movement in the pool over the next two years. Hard to really look THAT far into the future with much conviction.
History tells us we're gonna be looking at MLS rookies, other CONCACAF-based guys, maybe some collegians and European bit players. Maybe that changes somehow. But it's a really hard group to handicap. I don't even bother guessing this early anymore.
If I were US Soccer, I would lobby CONCACAF hard to make Olympic qualifying not a tournament held over a couple of weeks but a series of qualifiers held on international match days over a period of months, a la WC qualifying. This would make it easier to get the bulk of the foreign-based players released and make it more likely the teams with the better players qualified and could represent CONCACAF on the Olympic stage.
For the record, the above is how qualifying was for the 1992 Olympics, the first Olympics where men's soccer was a U23 event. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_CONCACAF_Men's_Pre-Olympic_Tournament It's also how it was in 1988, when full national teams were used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_CONCACAF_Men's_Pre-Olympic_Tournament I don't remember what 96 qualifying was like because the US got in automatically as a host but in 2000 and every Olympics since, qualifying has been in a tournament over a couple of weeks.