2019 Week 7 MLS Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ManiacalClown, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Week 7 kicked off last night with a boring-ass Tuesday game. Tonight's scheduled game has been postponed due to a snowpocalypse so I'll remove that one from the assignments.


    04/09/19

    D.C. United vs Montreal Impact
    Audi Field (8PM ET)
    REF: Christopher Penso
    AR1: Philippe Briere
    AR2: Claudiu Badea
    4TH: Guido Gonzales Jr
    VAR: Silviu Petrescu
    AVAR: Jeff Muschik


    04/12/19

    Chicago Fire vs Vancouver Whitecaps
    SeatGeek Stadium (8:30PM ET)
    REF: Jair Marrufo
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Jose Da Silva
    4TH: Ismir Pekmic
    VAR: Daniel Radford
    AVAR: Jonathan Johnson

    04/13/19

    Montreal Impact vs Columbus Crew
    Saputo Stadium (1PM ET)
    REF: Armando Villarreal
    AR1: Jason White
    AR2: Gianni Facchini
    4TH: Fotis Bazakos
    VAR: Christina Unkel
    AVAR: Robert Schaap

    Houston Dynamo vs San Jose Earthquakes
    BBVA Compass Stadium (3PM ET)
    REF: Baldomero Toledo
    AR1: Adam Garner
    AR2: Ian McKay
    4TH: Alejandro Mariscal
    VAR: Caleb Mendez
    AVAR: Alicia Messer

    Seattle Sounders vs Toronto FC
    CenturyLink Field (4PM ET)
    REF: Allen Chapman
    AR1: Jeremy Hanson
    AR2: Apolinar Mariscal
    4TH: Michael Radchuk
    VAR: Kevin Stott
    AVAR: Rene Parra

    Minnesota United vs New York City FC
    Allianz Field (5PM ET)
    REF: Alan Kelly
    AR1: Michael Kampmeinert
    AR2: Felisha Mariscal
    4TH: Rubiel Vazquez
    VAR: Silviu Petrescu
    AVAR: Peter Balciunas

    New England Revolution vs Atlanta United
    Gillette Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Alex Chilowicz
    AR1: Kyle Atkins
    AR2: Jeremy Kieso
    4TH: Matt Franz
    VAR: Geoff Gamble
    AVAR: Eric Weisbrod

    FC Dallas vs Portland Timbers
    Toyota Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: Marcos DeOliveira
    AR1: Jeffrey Greeson
    AR2: Eduardo Mariscal
    4TH: Victor Rivas
    VAR: Chico Grajeda
    AVAR: Kevin Terry

    Real Salt Lake vs Orlando City
    Rio Tinto Stadium (9PM ET)
    REF: Christopher Penso
    AR1: Nick Uranga
    AR2: Frank Anderson
    4TH: Ismir Pekmic
    VAR: Ricardo Salazar
    AVAR: Jozef Batko

    Colorado Rapids vs D.C. United
    Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (9PM ET)
    REF: Ted Unkel
    AR1: Mike Rottersman
    AR2: Chris Elliott
    4TH: Ramy Touchan
    VAR: Sorin Stoica
    AVAR: Jeff Muschik

    LA Galaxy vs Philadelphia Union
    Dignity Health Sports Park (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Dave Gantar
    AR1: Adam Wienckowski
    AR2: TJ Zablocki
    4TH: Joe Dickerson
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez
    AVAR: Fabio Tovar

    Los Angeles FC vs FC Cincinnati
    Banc of California Stadium (10:30PM ET)
    REF: Drew Fischer
    AR1: Chris Wattam
    AR2: Micheal Barwegen
    4TH: Tim Ford
    VAR: Edvin Jurisevic
    AVAR: Cameron Blanchard

    04/14/19

    Sporting Kansas City vs New York Red Bulls
    Children’s Mercy Park (7PM ET)
    REF: Robert Sibiga
    AR1: Ian Anderson
    AR2: Andrew Bigelow
    4TH: Alejandro Mariscal
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr
    AVAR: Peter Manikowski
     
  2. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Notes:
    1st MLS assignments for Michael Radchuk and Alicia Messer.
    Alan Kelly and Fotis Bazakos have returned to on-field status.
     
  3. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Alan Kelly had a USL Championship match on Wednesday night between Memphis and Atlanta. His game management was superb, I might add.
     
  4. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    MIN:NYC
    Could somebody please explain the offside call at 16:40?

    Attacker clearly PIOP
    Defender slips. - no flag.
    Defender gets up, attacker who was PIOP challenges - no flag

    Defender clears - still no flag.
    Hits opponent and bounces to attacker who was PIOP but is now well onside.

    Seems to me that it is far too late to call the original offside and the attacker certainly isn’t off now.

    Can someone please view this or tell me best way to get a video from my phone to here?
     
  5. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    From the description, I would *guess* that the call was for the challenge of the defender and that the flag was delayed because of an imminent scoring opportunity. (Sounds like a play that is likely to make it into the AR week in review.)
     
  6. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To me it looks like the AR wasn't sure if the player was close enough to have challenged the defender. He was probably talking with the referee and they finally decided that he was close enough so the flag went up. In the end I think they made the right call even though it looked a little weird.
     
  7. FootyPDX

    FootyPDX Member

    Portland Timbers
    England
    Nov 21, 2017
    I'm interested in hearing the mental gymnastics needed to explain the non-PK calls at the end of the Portland--Dallas game.
     
    rh89 repped this.
  8. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Handball IMO.
     
  9. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree.
     
  10. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    At full speed I can somewhat understand how the referee could rule the ball hit the FCD player’s ribs.

    With VAR and an OFR, I cannot fathom how he still thought that. VAR correctly recommended a review. The call should have been a penalty kick.
     
    rh89 repped this.
  11. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I watched it again. It's a clear and obvious PK IMO. Grajada did his job here.

    Also, when VAR gave Dallas their first goal of the game by overturning an incorrect offside decision, the referee simply pointed towards the center circle. Forgetting the basic mechanic of the whistle/VAR signal plus the handling decision could result in DeOliveira having a bit of a break from MLS centers.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Uh, mechanics aren’t going to be the reason he gets sat, if he does.
     
  13. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    I agree. To me, correct result overall, but the AR bungled it. He should have flagged it the moment the defender went down. But the new touch from the offensive player reset offside. The attacker certainly was not PIOP when the ball was last touched by a teammate.
     
  14. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    The AR was Felecia Mariscal. It looked to me like she did think a bit before deciding if the PIOP was "involved". No idea if she was talking to Kelly during that sequence.
     
  15. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, let's play predict the suspension for Kaku. It's gotta be 10+. Has to be.
     
  16. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Is there any precedent? I'm going to guess it's less than 10. 5 maybe.
     
  17. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    None that I know of, but he went after spectators, and that's really, really bad. Like exposed the league and himself to potential legal ramifications bad.
     
    YoungRef87 repped this.
  18. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    exactly. There have been some altercations with fans, but nothing like this. My guess is that he will express the proper amount of remorse. He teammates went to the person struck after the match to check on him and he seemed to be OK. It will be very interesting to see what happens. I'll guess 6 games.
     
  19. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    I say he gets 5 games.
     
  20. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    I'm guessing six, but I'd like to see 8-10 games (a quarter to a third of the season). That just cannot happen. Like @ManiacalClown said, that's a potential liability issue for the league and the Red Bulls. It's also a potential criminal charge against Kaku.
     
    YoungRef87 and JasonMa repped this.
  21. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a Rapids fan I’d say if Mullan got 10 this is at least 15 but I think we all know the Mullan punishment is going to be the exception to the rule forever. He’ll get 5-6, should get 10 (Rico Clark got 6, right?).
     
  22. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    In Kaku's defense, his action led to the ref correcting his incorrect throw in direction that led to Kaku kicking the ball.
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The immediate comparison that comes to mind is Cantona's kung-fu kick at a spectator.



    There are some obvious differences. For one, Cantona was already sent off for a different offence. Another is that he directed the kick at a particular fan (which I don't think Kaku did with his ball blast, right?). However, though I don't seriously offer this as a mitigating factor, one could argue that the fact that Cantona's victim ran 11 rows to shout abuse directly at him is a difference from what we saw last night.

    Working in the other direction, though, is that Kaku's act was indiscriminate and had the potential to cause much more damage. Cantona attacked a single fan with a kick (and probably hurt himself more than he did the fan); Kaku blasted a ball, with pace, toward an unsuspecting crowd (presumably including young kids)... a ball to the head in that situation could be a lot worse than a kick to the chest.

    Cantona faced and was convicted of criminal charges (2 week jail term reduced to 120 hours of community service). Manchester United, at the request of/in consultation with the FA, suspended him from all competitions for the rest of the season (this act occurred in late January). The FA increased the suspension to a total of 8 months (so ending late September of the same calendar year). France stripped him of his captaincy, FIFA confirmed the FA's ban applied worldwide, and he never played for his national team again.

    A lot is going to depend upon what the CBA with the players' union says. As we know, MLS is notoriously light on player punishment generally. You can't make an apples to apples comparison with Cantona anyway (besides the differences, Cantona had a lot of priors), but I think in an ideal world, Kaku is suspended by MLS for 3 months-minimum. I'm not sure if there is a mechanism for USSF to jump in here (unlike with referee assaults, I don't know if "spectator assault" is something it can claim jurisdiction over) but if there is, it should. In an ideal world, Kaku shouldn't be playing in any competitions for several months. Let's hope MLS and USSF are able to get that right. Would be interested to see if FIFA takes an interest, like it did with Cantona.
     
    frankieboylampard repped this.
  24. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    The other thing I'm curious about is how public PRO is about this game. Will it be covered in the Definitive Angle (or whatever that thing is called)? Or will they silently demote DeOliveira and not publicly address the errors that almost surely cost Portland point(s).
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Given this and the Colorado-Houston game, I don't think you're going to see De Oliviera in the middle for awhile. This assignment was already made before Colorado-Houston happened and he didn't get pulled, but this felt like a last chance for a little bit and everything I've read, seen and heard doesn't make it sound like he passed.

    So I don't think you'll see De Oliveira in the middle for a bit. But that will have as much to do--if not more so--with his Colorado-Houston match than this one.

    Whether PRO takes the opportunity to be public and throw him under the bus... that's anyone's guess.
     

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