I don’t really understand why Tab has developed this godfather-like respect where no one ever dares criticize him. He consistently makes just a few questionable decisions. He is a good coach, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t question him when he makes a mistake.
I disagree with the premise of this post. Everyone dares criticize Tab Ramos at one point or another.
Agreed. Tab receives nearly as much flak as everyone else. He just does the same things over and over again, and once you have 1 cycle with Tab complaining about the same things isn't all that fun.
yeah...i mean he was a great player for USMNT in 94 world cup...the only player with skill out there, it seemed....huge respect for him as a player.... BUUT as a coach...its frustrating to follow the same pattern of mistakes cycle after cycle and then hear his name bandied about for jobs like full USMNT coach. like are people not paying attention to what is happening? or is the bar just SO LOW that consistently making the same errors is not something to hold against a coach? soccer is a competition of systems - systems implemented by coaches - you could give a us soccer coach the "dream team" and they would find a way to not win - people dont seem to connect the dots - they think it is only the amount of talent that determines results - but it is much more complex than that! the overall scheme/system in place is a huge determinant of what happens...no matter how much talent a team has. its great that more talent than ever is coming through - but it won't matter unless the leaership stops making amateurish moves repeatedly over and over again like playing favorites and building teams around their "pets" and leaving superior players off rosters b/c of unfamiliarity and "lockerroom fit" and less-than ideal strategy....it doesn't happen like that in every country...might seem like that because it always happens in usa but it really doesn't have to be that way....not saying a coach won't ever mess up but its the way that us coaches mess up that is so annoying. its because of their way of being....which filters down to their teams and gives them all lower ceilings than they otherwise would/could have.almost as a rule. the job of a coach is to raise a team's cieling....but somehow in the USA it always seems that the coach lowers it, instead.
there's people who actually wanted him as full USMNT coach and he almost got the gig for the year sarachan had it.....not sure "everyone" does actually criticize him.
I should’ve clarified. I know some BS posters have criticized Tab, but the majority of tweeters hold him as some false idol and it seems like he has been built up as some super leader ahead of this World Cup and the criticism is getting quieter. Tbh, my expectations are somewhat tempered for this World Cup. I realize how much talent there is, but I kind of expect Tab to bench Durkin because he doesn’t win the ball enough 80 yards from goal. Or keep Konrad on the bench when he has 4 goals in 3 games because Ayo is more dedicated to the press. Or keep Real in the starting lineup “because of his leadership qualities.” Or maybe all three of those.
Criticism of Tab has gotten quieter because he's won back-to-back CONCACAF Championships. How many outright U20 titles had the US won prior to Tab? How many nations have made the quarterfinals in the last U20 World Cups? We have so many other places/people within US Soccer to direct our criticism, that pointing it at somebody who actually is meeting expectations seems like a waste of time. Is he perfect? No. He makes mistakes in player selection and on game day. But no matter who the coach is, folks are going to try to expose those mistakes. When it comes to player selection, our pool keeps getting deeper and deeper. Tough decisions needs to be made.
Every coach everywhere has received criticism. Whether someone receives criticism is not some standard for the reputation a coach takes on. How often does anyone call for Ramos to be fired or say he lost us games or anything that is beyond some basic criticism of a roster choice or lineup choice? The latter is nothing serious, and would never move the narrative about a coach. The former starts verging into the category where nobody wants to be the one to rock the boat in regards to the coach. Has Ramos deserved a reputation where none of the former happens? Lets take the example of John Hackworth. Look at the results his U-17 team achieved last cycle. That was probably as good of a youth cycle as we've had at either level in years, yet every time he made a mistake there were calls for his job and nobody wanted him to remain coach. We always heard that the team won in spite of him instead of because of him. Ramos reputation might partially be influenced by his time playing for the NT, but that shouldn't have anything to do with his reputation as a coach. He has achieved good results the past two cycles, but I question how good the results are. He's been great in CONCACAF (only one loss in qualifying the last two cycles including two wins against Mexico), but all that shows is that we've had the best team in the region. There's one other team in the region that is a good opponent on a consistent basis. In the last two U-20 WC's, we've advanced out of the group and to the the QF's, but neither group we got was particularly hard. We got a joke of a Round of 16 opponent last cycle, and we were completely outplayed in winning the prior cycle. Both QF games the last two cycles we were completely outplayed by non-traditional powers (Serbia and Venezuela) and we deservedly lost. If you venture past the last two cycles, I don't think the reviews of the 2013 U-20 WC would be too great either.
CONCACAF results are irrelevant in the wider world of the sport.... CONCACAF = how you do against Mexico - and let's be honest Mexico isn't even a big team in the world of soccer. I'm supposed to be impressed by the winner of 2 horse race??? So, yeah, Tab beat Mexico a couple times...which is pretty good but pretty much par, imo...but look at Mexico u17...even their best player plays in MLS...of course USA should do well in CONCACAF...if they don't it is embarassingly awful...not "good enough" or "meeting expectations"...my expectations for USMNTs have nothing to do with CONCACAF no matter how much USSF, FIFA, UEFA, MLS want me to base my assessments of USMNT on what they do in CONCACAF....
I'm at a wait and see. He has a few questionable picks but I'm guessing chemistry and glue are his reasoning. If they fall apart and his reasoning is crap there will be a lot of criticism because this bunch has a lot of talent.
Weren’t they supposed to have a closed door scrimmage before the start of the group stage? Thought I read that somewhere.
I really don't agree with what you're saying. First off, you're complaining like Tab's roster choices are the end of the world, but the biggest roster snubs were 1) the backup right back, 2) the fourth string attacking midfielder, and 3) a guy that would replace the 3rd string DM or play CB in a back 2, something he's never done well at the pro level before. Those seem like inconsequential decisions in comparison to what you're making them sound like. And coaches using favorites for familiarity and locker room fit happens literally everywhere, including at the largest stages in the world. Look at Manchester United. Scott McTominay played over Pogba for months! This stuff happens, and considering it happens everywhere, it's probably not always the wrong decision. That's fair criticism. I'm concerned that he started Cerrillo and Servania in the first match. I was hoping we'd employ two of the creative mids at once, not two of the defensive ones. Then again, it is a tournament where just not losing is usually good enough to get to the group stage, so maybe he's playing conservatively. I don't want Tab to be fired considering he's been just about the one point of stability in the program over his tenure, but I do think this should be his last cycle. He's had his success, and he should let someone else take the reins to prove themselves and keep the conveyer belt going. There's only so many places to prove yourself as a coach in this country, and Tab shouldn't hog the best one. He should step down afterwards, regardless of what happens, and I think he will. @Susaeta posted on twitter the other day that Wicky is going to take over the YTD spot after the U17 world cup, which is Tab's job, meaning Tab is going somewhere.
Anyone know much about any of the teams we’re facing? Do these teams have players in their domestic leagues, or elsewhere?
They should be on Fox Sports 1 and NBC Universo. USSoccer.com hasn't updated the website, but that's what my YouTube TV guide tells me
the goal should be win the tourney not just get out of the group. roster depth is often the difference between knockout wins and losses - the backup spots matter a lot. are you sure there will not be holes in roster at some point during the tourney? holes that couldv'e been filled by players not there? I'm not. do klopp and guardiola play favorites? besides the favorites that the Germany's and Manchester United's play are likely world class players regardless...so its not really the same , imo......its not the blatant "you clearly arent good enough but i like your personality" type of favoritism that happens in the USA. its both of these players are great but i like that flavor better - BIG difference, imo.
I think the U17 CONCACAF final was a good example of why every roster spot is important. We got exposed for a lack of depth (and bad sub rotation) in that second half and it cost us the championship. Dest or Gloster could get hurt in the first game and we could be stuck with the last guy on the roster as the left back or a center back who has almost no experience at right back. Also, if we make it far enough, which should be about the knockout stage or quarterfinals, it will become very evident that guys are wearing down. We will have to use the whole bench or just keep throwing guys out there when they’re exhausted. That’s why Tyler Adams had to come out in the 51st minute against Venezuela 2 years ago. The other concern is exactly what you stated (and I’ve expected all along). Tab has this defensive mindset where I fully expect him to start 2 ball winners in the midfield most games. I also expect him to make some random decision that leaves all of us asking what the hell he's doing. Something like start Rennicks every game and use Weah as an option off the bench all tournament. The talent on this team is light years ahead of the Lennons and De la Torres who were asked to carry us 2 years ago, but the concern is as you go deeper, can Rennicks and Ayo step in and help carry us when they’re needed, or will they be exposed (like Lennon and De la Torre were vs Venezuela)?
You're taking arguably the two greatest managers in the entire world and comparing them to Tab Ramos. Of course he's not gonna live up to expectations, neither does anyone else. And yeah, of course they do. Pep plays Zinchenko and looks like a genius because he's a good enough manager to make anyone look good. Klopp got Divock Origi to score 2 goals against Barcelona. You say that they're always world class players when it's for big teams, which is true. For the US U20s, they're just American under 20 year olds. It's just that since you're so familiar with the pool you're able to clearly decipher players abilities and separate them into different levels. Other fans do the same thing, regardless of the level. Chelsea fans hated Jorginho and thought he wasn't good enough for a while. Spurs fans were speechless when Moussa Sissoko cost them 30 million pounds. United fans can't understand why Ashley Young and Phil Jones keep getting contracts. It's the same thing everywhere, you're just way more familiar with this group of players.
Separate question-- Do people think it would be a good idea to combine qualifying for the U17 and U20 World Cups with Conmebol?
Wouldn't the idea be that Wicky takes over the u20's when/if Ramos leaves - if things turn out satisfactorily with current u17 squad? He'd be on track for the short list for 2026 Senior men's cycle. His team building skills seemed to be on display in recent U17 tournament. We lost the title but learned a lot about how far we could push individuals in the finals coming up in Brazil.
I don’t see why taking an MLS gig would have him off the shortlist for the USMNT gig either in several years. The point being that coaches want to coach. For most coaches, youth national team soccer isn’t nearly as desirable as coaching at the first-team club level