PBP: 2019 CONCACAF U17 Championship Quarterfinals: USA vs Panama 5/12 2 PM (ET)

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Sebsasour, May 9, 2019.

  1. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    @AutoPenalti is to blame for 26, as he added USA 3-2 Canada to @Sebsasour 's 23-1 and got 26-3, when he should have just added Canada's 2 goals to make it 23-3. I hope that's clear.
     
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  2. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Mexico has been better than us all cycle. We could beat them, but speaking of what should happen, we should lose to Mexico, if we play them in the final.

    I wouldn't start gloating after we beat teams such as Panama. I also thought this was a very weak Panama team. They usually are a lot more talented than this Panama team was. I think what we showed with this age group (a very weak age group that has struggled against big teams for years) is that we are past the point where WCQ is difficult for our youth teams. We hear a lot about how CONCACAF teams are improving. I don't buy that for a second. We've improved. They haven't. Outside of a fluke occurrence, we should no longer have any trouble qualifying for major youth tournaments out of CONCACAF.
     
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  3. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I thought the Seattle players were the two best players on the pitch. The game opened up in the second half, and those two provided the needed playmaking that Reyna, Busio and Yow weren't providing. I also thought that Scally had a very good game.

    Not that many bad performances. Our attacking mids were the only players I thought played poorly. Reyna's football IQ is questionable, IMO. He doesn't know when to release the ball to a teammate instead of continuing to dribble. There was an instance where he chose to take a bad angle shot when he had two teammates (Busio and AOC) waiting at the top of the box for what should've been an easy finish for either of them. If its not a low football IQ, its selfish play. Busio had another of those games where he brings nothing outside of scoring a goal. Yow usually doesn't bring much, if he's not scoring goals, and he scores less of them than Busio.
     
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  4. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #104 gunnerfan7, May 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
    Boo... Fine, 23-1, dang.
     
  5. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who on their team looks particularly good outside of Efrain Alvarez? We've both beaten down the teams we should beat down, the only difference so far being the fact that Mexico has struggled to beat Jamaica and Puerto Rico.

    "Don't gloat after Panama"? Nah, it's house money now. The goal was to qualify for the WC. Job's done. The rest is gravy. We beat Canada once, and we're playing better than we did that first game, so I expect us to beat them again. After that, who knows? If we're close to Mexico w/r/t talent (perhaps better, depending on the lineups), and yet we're playing better than them, why wouldn't we be favored to win?
     
  6. WheezingUSASupport

    Dortmund
    United States
    Aug 28, 2017
    Would be great if we demolish Mexico and Efra makes a switch.
     
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  7. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    At halftime? I'm not sure that's allowed.
     
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  8. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Great result for the boys! I'll overanalyze everything later! Today is about qualifying.................the only result that really matters in the event. Mission Accomplished!.

    This is the second U17 cycle in a row for which we've qualified with relative ease.

    Worth noting that the only game we've lost in the last two U17 CONCACAF championships was on penalties to Mexico in the 2017 final. Other than that, its been rip-roaring.
     
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  9. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I haven't watched their games in this tournament, so I wouldn't know. What I do know is that we have played them three times this cycle, and they've won two of those games. We also played them right before the cycle began in this age group, and lost, so we've played them four times in the last two years and lost three of those games. The only game we won was a one goal win. I'm all for saying we've passed Mexico in CONCACAF, and there is a talent gap at the youth level between the two teams. I think we've seen it in the last two U-20 age groups, and the prior U-17 age group, but this seems to be one of their better age groups and one of our weaker ones.

    I think qualifying should be regarded as a requirement. I don't see it as some huge achievement. If we can't qualify, thats a disaster for this program. We are too talented to not be qualifying for every major youth tournament, so I don't see it as some big win. Our youth programs are now at the point where we should be advancing towards the latter rounds of the big youth tournaments. Qualifying shouldn't be treated by the team as an afterthought because that isn't a good mentality for the team to have in these games, but if we think we are a team that can win some of these youth tournaments, we shouldn't be having any trouble qualifying.

    I'm not saying we did have much trouble qualifying. I thought it would be a little more difficult, and I'm surprised that it wasn't. However, we need to consider the level of teams we are playing. We haven't yet played a team at this tournament that is the caliber of a team that challenges us to get out of the group or plays us in the knockout rounds, if we do get out of the group.
     
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  10. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    We should've won that game. Hackworth tried to out-think everyone, and it lost us that game. We played them twice in that tournament, won the first game easily and they only tied the second one up in the final minute of stoppage time. We were the best team at that tournament, despite placing second.
     
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  11. kingshark

    kingshark Member

    Mar 3, 2006
    Lol, Sounds like Thomas Rongen comment on Messi's soccer IQ.

    Many elite players in the world especially the core of the teams have been occasionally selfish and missed open teammates. From what I have seen, the frequency of Reyna's 'selfish' plays are in the normal range. You are using the god's view, very different than actual view on the fields.
     
  12. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Good idea. Compare Reyna to Messi.

    I also said its one or the other. He's selfish or he doesn't know what decisions to make on the ball (often can be characterized as a low soccer IQ). I gave a specific instance that should've resulted in a goal where Reyna made a dumb play. Not every talented player has a high soccer IQ or isn't selfish. It doesn't mean he's bad, but if he's constantly making the wrong decisions or sees the right decision to make and instead chooses the selfish dribble, thats not going to help the team win games.
     
  13. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Good game from the USA in pretty much the only one that mattered. Wicky I think has settled in and put the a quality side out there (would like to see KHF tried at LB, but oh well).

    0-0 at half made for some stress. The central trio of Saldana/Leyva/Busio didn't (proabably doesn't) have enough creativity. Perhaps Wicky got to Leyva at half, or he just was able to do it on his own, but Leyva's aggression to create offense changed the game, and won it for us. Leyva I think will be a very good player. Reminds me some of Reyna Sr.

    As for Reyna Jr., I hope his game matures, because he's good enough to play, but right now he's a bit hard to root for. One of the most selfish players i've seen. Also, maybe the PAN GK said something, if so then fine, but trash talking a guy after a PK is not a good look.

    Saldana I really liked here. Boring performance, but he was pretty much perfect today. I think his stock may have risen the most on this team so far.

    Scally doesn't look it, but he can maraud pretty impressively at RB at this level. No end product today, but on other days it will.

    The rest of the backline was good (though they didn't have much to do), save for the one play where Gray almost gifted Panama one, but Kobe bailed him out.

    Las was bad today. They only way Panama was going to score was him f'ing up a pass and he had 4 bad ones...2 really bad ones. 0-0 in this game was not to time to dick around.

    Yow was quieted, and Busio isn't a #10.

    Ocampo-Chavez is excellent. Hopefully he can get some minutes in Seattle soon. Maybe if Morris is on the Gold Cup squad he'll get called up.

    And happy for Pepi to get a goal and alleviate some frustration.
     
  14. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

    Jan 18, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Are you a US Soccer fan?
    We're going to the U17 YWC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Yay!
     
  15. kingshark

    kingshark Member

    Mar 3, 2006
    First, it's pretty clear I am not comparing him to Messi, I just stated your comments on Reyna's soccer IQ is similar to Rongen's on Messi (that is: if you want to use microscope, any player can have questionable soccer IQ.)

    And you emphasize you gave the instance. That's the problem. Soccer is a probability game, you cannot use small sample to over-judge a player, just like you can not use a few bad shot or bad misses to judge one player's finishing ability. So that's why I say the frequency of Reyna's 'selfish' play instead of using one instance to stand against you. If I want, I can easily find instances to 'prove' he has super high soccer IQ.
     
  16. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was pretty excited by Saldana's performance. He destroyed well, distributed efficiently w/ line breaking passes, and occasionally got fw to play it into a dangerous area. He's a 6 so if that's your criteria, then that position is never going to be exciting. He didn't play the long diagonals today. That's something else he could have contributed, as he has in the past. But Panama bunkered and the wind was swirling.

    I sort of agree that Busio isn't a 10, but I'm adamant he's not a winger. Doesn't have the ability to take on players. So what is he?
     
  17. autobus39

    autobus39 Member+

    Jun 28, 2006
    Scranton, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    He's a Muller or Reus type of player. Put him anywhere. He probably fits best as a secondary striker because thats where he'll be tasked with the least positional responsibilities, but if you don't want to use that role in your team, he could play as a CF, winger or CAM.
     
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  19. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Agree. It was kind of a master class boring #6 performance.

    How do you make the keyboard shrug emogi thing?

    Maybe he develops into a #8? Or maybe he can be a poaching undersized striker...our Chicharito?
     
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  20. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    #120 TimB4Last, May 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
    A lot of good points - pulling out a couple. Out of context, the trash-talking looked bad, card-worthy, in fact. It was unsportsmanlike. Naturally I'm curious as to what might have prompted it.

    Las' distribution seemed somewhat uneven, and if I were his coach I would like to see an all-touches video. He seemed very accurate when rolling or throwing the ball, less so with his feet, and not just when under pressure. There were also a couple of high crosses (corners) where he came out to punch/claim the ball but failed.

    On the plus side, he seems confident, and relatively unruffled by own mistakes, or those of others. His teammates trust him, which may be the most important factor at this point.
     
  21. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're conflating not necessarily having a position with being capable of playing many well. It's the opposite of versatility.

    He's very little like Reus. Reus is a great passer. He also has much better physical tools. Reus is decent sized and above average movement. Although of course Busio has time to mature in that area. It's just an unpredictable variable.

    I think he is most like Muller, and a striker, more ss. But most teams don't use one these days, and then a minority of the ones who do play on the counter. One way or another projecting here would require a lot of physical growth.

    Otherwise he's in the Julian Green and Kellyn Acosta mold. Tweeners who you don't know where to play but sometimes are compelled because they have scoring instincts. That is before deciding it's just not good enough.
     
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  22. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Have you watched every game here? It's still a small sample, but If you have, I find it hard to believe that Reyna's selfishness has escaped you. The one play referenced by @ussoccer97531 was one particularly egregious one, but it's a double-digit count of instances over this tournament.

    He can see a pass - he's made several excellent ones. His vision isn't closed. But if you want to talk probabilities, xGoals goes down when you lose the ball trying to dribble 3 guys and when you take shots with no angle.
     
  23. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some of his best pick outs have come before he starts dribbling. Others have been crosses once he's gotten to the end line. It might well be that he puts his head down and can't see the options on the field when it's a situation that requires discretion.

    However, thinking he's superior to his teammates is also a possibility. And that may be true from a talent standpoint, but he is hurting scoring probabilities. Yeah, the one where he kept driving to the end line instead of passing to Busio with a prospective chance in front of net, which is his forte, drew ire especially.
     
  24. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They've been slightly better than us at the U17 level in H2H, despite the US being coached by John Hackworth, and despite (by your own admission, and I think many would agree with you) the US being a better team overall. I think this might be another cycle where our U17's end up being much better U20 players.

    I'm not jumping for joy that we're pasting teams that we should paste, but the refrain for this team has been "will struggle to qualify". Turns out, that refrain was unwarranted. Outside of a minute against Canada, we've smashed our way through CONCACAF. I saw us blow through the U20 tournament 6 months ago, and this is looking an awful lot like that tournament.
     
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  25. kingshark

    kingshark Member

    Mar 3, 2006
    I watched all Nike friendlies, NYCFC academy team on GA cup and DA playoff. Also there is JR Eskilson's scouting video on him, which gave the statement he reads game well, so definitely not soccer IQ problem. Another possibility is that your reference average soccer IQ is Xavi or Modric's level.

    And both of you are still using one instance here. That one is horrible, but I have seen enough of this kind of horrible selfish play by some of the greatest soccer players.
     

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