Pre-match: 2019 CONCACAF Gold Cup Group Stage: USA vs Guyana

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Sebsasour, Jun 2, 2019.

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  1. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I can see that because Gregg has, so far, set the program up to be anti-accountability. Look at the latest move in bringing in Djorde. The guy was terrible against Jamaica and then dropped an F bomb on his own fans. Called right up!

    Dave was a horrible coach, but tried to instill some kind of culture. It is sad that Dave is looking good just 6 months into Gregg. But Dave sent all the RSL guys home because Acosta had girls hanging around training camp (allegedly). Dave sent a message. What message is Greg sending, especially if he starts his old roommate against T&T for a redemption story?

    The sad truth is, Omar will probably do it again. He wasn't unlucky on the play. He played the cross lazyily and haphazardly and deserved the result. He did the same at Honduras for their goal. He was beat in Orlando and saved by Yedlin. And he should have given up a penalty and red card after the own goal. Part of this is the major media that wouldn't know the correct way a CB should play that ball or, if they did, would never say it out loud.

    Omar is a horrible soccer player that has somehow remained a professional and is now on the "good old boys" gravy train with USMNT caps and a fat new MLS contract after being sent to the trash pile by his Liga MX club.
     
  2. um_chili

    um_chili Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Losanjealous
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not 100% sure how this interacts with my post, but if the point is that the forward situation is not as dire as it may seem, but that Gagg has simply failed to call up the best forwards available, then may that be true. Whether it is true I will leave to those who know more about the player pool and club form than I do. But there are times when it would be great to be wrong, and I dearly hope for the sake of the program that my pessimism about the forward pool is misplaced.

    Unrelated, and on a slightly positive note, what result tonight would begin to create some sense of optimism? I've been thinking about this as a way to frame/manage my expectations. What I've landed on is this: If we beat Guyana by three or more goals; concede no more than one goal; and overall look reasonably coherent and organized, then I will allow myself to think maybe things aren't so bad and that the friendlies were if not an aberration then at least not entirely representative of what is to come in the tournament.

    This is what passes for pre-tournament hype these days for me, and yes I am aware of how depressing that is.
     
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  3. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  4. manq360

    manq360 Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    Portland, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ha, ha...the same place Edu got his suit from. If this is the new trend, all I can say is count me out. We use to call them "high waters" or something equally disturbing.
     
  5. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    I don't really understand why everyone is worried about our forwards.

    Jozy scored in one game in the Hex (one penalty, one run of play set up by CP). He's been on terrible NT form when he hasn't been injured (ok ok, Jozy supporters, I realize he scored 5 goals pre-hex against St Kitts and Nevis).

    I guess Wood was in decent form during the Hex, but it's not like our forward line has ever been talented or deep.

    Jozy is the same player he always is, he'll score a couple in the games pre-semis, and everyone else is whatever. Pretty much what we've dealt with the last 5 years outside of a few Dempsey resurrections.

    Plus, Pulisic is still there, and our best attacker by far. Our offense will go as far as he takes us.

    I'm more concerned with our midfield getting run over, our apparent starting CB being injured the last few months, and our gk making boneheaded mistakes every game.
     
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  6. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I though redemption was the motive for trying to re-integrate after the debacle. And not so much for him as a player but the decision makers who put him in that position. They need it for their ego. Look how hard it was for Bruce to take any blame after the U.S. got d.q.'ed. He still has relationships among the higher-ups who hired him.

    But someone made a pertinent point Berhalter was Omar's player mentor from when he started out with the Galaxy. So he has his own biases. In addition, Bruce was both of their coach's. Berhalter's brother is one of the leading voices within US Soccer. There's just way too many of conflicts of interests here, leading to a lot of choices that are inexplicable on the surface, like after a year LYING in wait, hiring an under-qualified manager like Gregg, who brought Omar back into the fold. Who would do things like these rationally?
     
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  7. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    This is the one situation Egg/USSF supporters aren't really mentioning...yes, you can argue til the cows come home about how Sargent needs to "Prove it!" in a far better league than MLS by getting starters minutes...

    But I haven't seen one defense of bringing Omar back into the fold. Just kinda sweeping that one under the rug, nothing to see here folks!
     
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  8. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Excellent preview puff piece by Straus on SI.com. Does this guy really believe what he writes?

    My favorite line..."The talent pool isn’t as deep as it has been at other points in recent U.S. soccer history, leaving Berhalter to trust in a small handful of vets like Michael Bradley, Omar Gonzalez and Jozy Altidore, along with a bunch of younger players still learning the international ropes."

    So out of all the vets we could have had, we chose the guy who captained/presided over our nation's biggest soccer failure, the guy who own-goaled away our chances (not his first mistake), and the guy who scored in one game in the Hex (I'm not anti-Jozy, ftr).

    What a world.
     
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  9. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    SUM Cabal Executive Director
    Jan 9, 2004
    3 blocks from "SoccerHouse", Chicago
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    The volume of Omar as a backup complaints are kind of hilarious given that Tim Ream is a probable starter. The same Tim Ream who was utterly incompetent during the Hex when he saw the field.
     
  10. um_chili

    um_chili Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Losanjealous
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It has: 2009/10, we had a very in-form Jozy, Davies coming up (2009 only, alas), LD and Dempsey both capable of playing up front and scoring. 2002 we had Mathis, McB, LD, and Wolff. 2006 was bad--an aging McBride was about it with Donovan in poor form. Since the 2010 cycle we've leaned heavily on Dempsey and Jozy, and I think it's safe to say without grabbing the third rail that Dempsey was more effective/consistent at scoring than Jozy was. But hey even if you rate Jozy as useless at least we had someone at the forward position who you could look at and feel confident about. I am not a Jozy hater but not sure he brings that to the team; no one else on this roster comes close. So the concern for the forwards is not really as compared to other parts of the team, but just as (one more) example of where the position seems notably weaker than in the past.

    Also totally valid concerns, and maybe ones that do loom larger. But the fact that our tepid forward pool is the least of our concerns neither disproves that forwards are a concern nor makes the situation seem any less dire.
     
  11. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Odds that McKennie starts at RB?
     
  12. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Have you counted? Because it seems they are both complained about just as frequently.

    And even if you have counted more for Omar, let's not be silly...his own goal is the primary cause of that one.

    Ream is an old guy who shouldn't be on the team.
    Omar is an old guy who shouldn't be on the team, whose catastrophic own goal was a large piece of our failed qualification.

    This can't be that confusing to you...
     
  13. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    I wonder if Berhalter has thought about playing Trapp in the Adams right back role thing.
     
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  14. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    SUM Cabal Executive Director
    Jan 9, 2004
    3 blocks from "SoccerHouse", Chicago
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    And yet I still have been seeing people clamoring for Cameron who's violation of the "don't pass the ball directly to your opponent in your own third" rule was the reason Omar saw the field in Corvo in the first place...and he'd hardly be one to talk about shanking a ball in a crucial game.

    Hell, JAB's disaster performances at the start of the Hex were just as much a contributor to why wee didn't qualify.
     
  15. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #940 juvechelsea, Jun 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
    "you will need to explain this. where did the three goals while playing on top notch euro teams occur? I missed something."

    he scored for French title winners PSG against Monaco in a French Cup game, and then against Caen in Ligue 1. if you run the numbers they dressed him 3 times, played him 143', and he scored 2 goals.

    similarly, he scored for Scottish title winners Celtic 3 times in 354' of work (basically 4 full games of minutes).

    the pretense or myopia is focus on minutes and bench status. but that's 5 goals in about 500 minutes spot playing for 2 title winning teams. the normal reaction to such a contribution would be "show me more." not to stick them in the dungeon like they are playing like Wood.

    Zardes' 6 goals come in about 1100-1200 minutes of starting and basically being left out there all day, for a team that is acres away from competitive right now.

    Weah also had a NT goal last year which cancels out the goal Zardes supports want to hold up that he has scored the past 3 years.

    we will now commence to nitpick who Weah scored on without doing the same analysis on Zardes or anyone else. that Zardes' only goals going back to Copa America are on one team -- Ecuador. that he has 3 goals in years of playoff effort. that half his goals this season are on awful teams like Colorado and New England that are giving away goals like replica tee shirts to everyone in attendance.

    it's amusing because with all the big club snobs out there, there should be at least some "but they see something in him" response.
     
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  16. CyphaPSU

    CyphaPSU Member+

    Mar 16, 2003
    Not Far
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would be quite a problem given his level of athleticism and his level of defensive prowess...
     
  17. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    SUM Cabal Executive Director
    Jan 9, 2004
    3 blocks from "SoccerHouse", Chicago
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Now given our situation at LEFT back...
     
  18. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. both complaints can be highly valid and add to the frustration
    2. you don't know who will start ultimately and there are a lot of games
    3. Ream can play our weak left back position unlike Omar

    I don't think Omar is a top 15 center back for us when everybody is healthy. IMO he's behind Long, Miazga, Brooks, Besler, Miles, EPB, Zimmerman, Parker, Ike, Trusty, Richards, Sands, CCV, Alvarado, Birnbaum, McKenzie. He's also on the old side, and doesn't fit the system which skews some of Gregg's other picks. It's crazy Omar is making any roster.
     
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  19. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Not seen people "clamoring" for Cameron. Maybe a few have mentioned his name as being better than Trapp/MB at the #6? Maybe you're confusing that for "clamoring".

    Is your opinion, then, that Brooks shouldn't be a part of the team?

    Or (more likely, I think), that every player that played in the Hex is responsible, and thus, you can't blame anyone?

    What, exactly, is your point? Should Ream be on the team? Omar? Brooks? Cameron? Bradley?
     
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  20. um_chili

    um_chili Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Losanjealous
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All good points, and for what it's worth my understanding is that Gagg gave Weah the option of a callup to the GC squad or to play in the u20s, and Weah chose the latter. So his absence on this team may not be solely do to Gagg's incompetence/love affair with his own former players. Source for this fact: Total Soccer Show Podcast, today's episode. Not sure what their source was.
     
  21. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    i am a body of work person. after several bad games in a row you get my confidence from the opposite run, and i don't mean one game, i mean many.

    I agree in a generic sense that the "look" of the team -- whether he has them drilled and playing together -- contributes (or not) to confidence. in the recent case, they have not only quit getting results but looked disorganized doing it. to me, gone backwards.

    but even if i was inclined in some sort of aesthetic direction, at some point a "progress" honeymoon has to convert into tangible payoff. this is 6 months in. this is his big window to camp an A team for weeks. if they continue to look bad and struggle for results, i am done waiting. in a year we begin qualifying for real. we are going to run out of time to calmly re-sort this team with time before the games matter. i really don't want back into last cycle where we fire the coach during qualifying and never figure out who all should be playing mid and back. we tried to cover it up with the elderly, they broke down, and at the very end we were still trying out center backs, left backs, who should play mid. people make fun of my experimental drive but one alternative is "just pretend" and then you're trying to fix it while trying to stay afloat while games count.

    like i said, i think we should expect the final or he's done. that's a lower bar than got Bradley fired in 2011 and what should have happened to JK in 2015. we define ourselves as an elite team. some of the arrogant talk is like we are so good we should move regions or some such blather. well, i think the talent is at least in that neighborhood and if you can't select and manage to that level you are the problem.

    i do think defense is a continued issue but i giggle at the idea omar ream and miazga is a solution. that's one of the reasons I highlighted "play from the back" because I think a team already struggling for competent defense has been further torn down by selecting defenders for perceived passing. i hold that choice plus Steffen's gaffes responsible for the last 2 games.
     
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  22. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I go back to, I think him and Sargent should have been adult decisions. That it's like "where do you want to be" and then one is playing youth ball and the other isn't playing anything anymore this summer, and neither are on a depleted senior team......

    to me people are taking that decision out of context. he left them off in March as well. he shipped them off to U23. he gave them a choice on senior team, then cut the one who pursued senior play. does that really sound like someone giving them a chance? i think Berhalter wants it to be a choice. wants it to be something other than the objective 1 cap this year.

    it's kind of like his odd selection in general. if you ignore the white noise of him telling the press "why" and focus on the names, and the list left off at this point (not injured), it's absurd. thinking about it that way refocuses the questions on "is he picking the best people" and re-formats his decisions as excuses. you get to have excuses when your mad scientist schemes work. when they don't, you're just weird.

    i think you can send weah down. i also think there is an argument that with senior caps, a senior goal, a senior team tournament and a team being re-worked, he should be here. that like Pulisic or Sargent who are both probably around the right age still, they have "graduated." if teams do sometimes leave players like this down in the juniors, they are usually stocked when they do it.
     
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  23. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I will be extremely disappointed if we give up a goal to Guyana. I think we will score at least five goals, with two coming from Pulisic
     
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  24. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    You are right. It is almost like Omar was brought in to distract from the fact Bradley and Ream were brought in too. The only reason I doubt that is that I believe that the guys at USSF and GB and ES think Bradley is one of our 3 best players. Top 5 at worst. So, it would never occur to them to play P.R. 3-dimensional chess like that.

    Ben Sweat got USMNT caps because his agent called in a favor to Sarachan or someone. Omar is here because he was Gregg's roommate. Those are two instances that have actually been public. There must be others, would explain a lot. I'm sure our media is on it! Expect a piece by Tenorio at any moment.
     
  25. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #950 DHC1, Jun 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
    Really?

    Ream only played in one of the three vital losses that we had in the Hex (Mexico/CR at home and tnt) while Omar played in two and was obviously terrible in one of them. Do you remember which game Ream played in? Was his performance in that game worse than Gonzalez? Given how bad you think Ream was, I’m sure it’s seared in your memory like that Gonzalez performance at TNT.

    Next, Center Back is the one position where we have a lot of reasonably good alternatives. At left back, it is a black hole and were thinking of starting lovitz.
     

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