2019 Canadian Championship

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Robert Borden, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #1 Robert Borden, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
    Vaughan Azurri advances to 2019 Canadian Championship


    FC Lanaudiere advances to 2019 Canadian Championship


    They will be joined by the 7 new Canadian Premier League Clubs [​IMG]


    And the 3 MLS clubs [​IMG]
    • Format to be determined
    • Canadian quota rules are 3 Canadians MUST start. Possible changes to be determined
    • Winner represents Canada in the CONCACAF Champions League
     
    soccersubjectively repped this.
  2. Initial B

    Initial B Member

    Jan 29, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa Fury
    Don't forget the Ottawa Fury. :whistling:
     
  3. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Pending CSA sanctioning :)

    No joke, they haven't rule on it yet...

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spo...ready-to-launch-in-2019-with-seven-teams-but/
    Asked for comment on the issue of sanctioning the Fury, a CSA spokesman said only: “Canada Soccer is continually working through the due diligence of proper sanctioning requirements and will provide an update once sanctioning procedures have been completed.”

    Hardly a confirmation.

    -Neil Davidson, Associated Press
     
  4. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Any word if they plan on joining CPL?
     
  5. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    They would be crazy not to pass 2019. If they don't join in 2020, I think CPL will seriously move on from OSEG and award a club to another group. There's huge doubts that they get sanctioned in USL past 2019.

    They have limited choices...
    • Join CPL
    • Sell to a CPL ownership wanting to join the league
    • lose sanctioning and get relegated to L10
    • Fold
     
  6. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    I'm looking forward to the expanded tournament.

    I'm also very curious as to the format. I can think of a number of options. They could just pick something that works for this year as a stand-alone but, if it was me, I'd try to come up with something that would enlarge easily as more teams are added. Tweaking things every year on an ad hoc basis would be awkward.
     
  7. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Without Ottawa, Robert Borden listed 12 clubs. The simplest format would be the same as the MLS playoffs with 4 clubs getting byes and 8 playing in Round 1. Unlike the MLS playoffs, everything could be done in 2 legs. For 2019, the three MLS clubs could get byes along with the winner of L10 or PLSQ. It would be hard to pick one. If you add Ottawa to make 13, the three MLS clubs could be the only clubs with byes. If there were 12 clubs in 2020, I would give the three MLS clubs and the CPL Champion the four byes. Alternatively, no league could be given byes, and the best clubs one year could get byes the next year.

    Another possibility is a Group Stage. 12 clubs could be put in 4 groups of 3. I would give every club one home game and one away game so it would only take 3 matchdays. If clubs played every opponent twice, it would take 6 matchdays to get down to 4 clubs. The four winners would go to the Semifinals, and performance within your group could seed the clubs from 1 to 4 to determine who hosts second legs like the Concacaf Champions League used to do. 3 groups of 4 would avoid clubs having a matchday off, but it would add two problems. One problem is that either some clubs would get 2 home games and some clubs would get 2 away games or clubs would play every opponent twice and play 6 games. I don't know how many games the CPL will play, but I don't think MLS clubs would want to play 34 games plus 6 + 2 + 2 = 10 games for this. Another problem with 3 groups is that the best second place club would go to the Semifinals rather than one club per group. 13 clubs wouldn't go in groups well. A knockout tournament could handle 12 to 16 clubs with the same amount of rounds.
     
  8. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The group format would be nice but it would be too many games. The only real option with 12 would be the 4 teams with a bye on the first round. The only tricky part is how to decide who gets the 4th bye. I would suggest just drawing lots.

    With 13 it actually becomes more simple. Give Ottawa the 4th bye and have L1O vs PLSQ as a preliminary round.
     
  9. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Or have a first round with the ten non-MLS teams. That will leave five to which you add the three MLS teams to get to eight.
     
  10. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    That is also a good way to do it. Though that would mean an extra round for the MLS sides, and not too sure they'd want to do that. It's a little extra revenue but more stress on player resources.
     
  11. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    They wouldn't have a choice.

    Remember that year when the CSA told TFC that they would have to defend ther CCL qualification won in 2016 if they didn't win it in 2017 due to CCL restructuring? They were pushed but had no choice.

    So if they have to play more games, so be it.

    There's also the question of IF the CSA will maintain the mandatory quota of 3 Canadian starters or impose a new one. Could be 3 Canadians at all time or match CPL 6 Canadians at all times.
     
  12. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    It would be pretty long for whatever non-MLS teams went far, too.

    I've been wondering if the tournament might eventually end up going to single game eliminations like the USOC. I'd strongly prefer to stay with the doubles so that everyone gets a home game each round but the increasing number of teams might force their hand.
     
  13. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With 13 clubs, the two proposals have MLS clubs play the same amount of rounds. The difference is having 10 non-MLS clubs start in the same round or giving a fourth bye to a non-MLS club making two non-MLS clubs start before the other 11. If it expanded to 14 or more clubs, there would need to be two rounds before MLS clubs entered, or some MLS clubs would get byes but not others. American MLS clubs have to play five games to win the U.S. Open Cup. Canadian MLS clubs having to play three rounds of two games isn't much different. If Canadian MLS clubs had to play four rounds, they're more likely to want rounds done in one game.

    As a separate issue, looking at the locations of the CPL clubs, would it make sense to do the first round in an eastern half and a western half to reduce travel?
     
  14. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Irrespective of the impact on travel, it might be a good idea from the perspective of fostering/creating "local" rivalries which could increase attendance.

    I could see some complaints of the "you got to the final only facing teams from the X-side which is weaker". For example, there would presumably be only one MLS team in the west and two in the east. But, hey, you've got to win in the final to win it all regardless.
     
  15. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I like the group stage thing. Split it in half and have them face each other throughout the year until top 4 on each sides (2 groups) advance to knockoff stage with the final culminating to somewhere in October after the CPL season.

    *I know, unfair to MLS teams, but the CSA is unlikely to put their interest abovethe 7 CPL teams sitting at the CSA table outnumbering the 3 MLS owners.

    The CSA, rightfully so will be pushing their own league above the interests of 3 MLS clubs. The format and domestic quota will be things to watch for 2019 or 2020
     
  16. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The tricky part with that is that there are only 4 clubs in the west and 6 in the east (7 if Ottawa is in). That also means that the eastern CPL teams have a chance at playing tier 3 clubs, the western teams would get none.

    You COULD balance it by putting the westernmost club in the East (Hamilton if we're going strictly by longitude), but even then you'd have an uneven number of clubs in each group.

    We're talking about the cost of one single match of travel in a year for each club. I think nationwide by lots is fine.
     
  17. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    CPL officials made clear that travel cost weren't an issue without undermining its importance. Some kind of financial assistance to D3 clubs would be in place to cover them I would think.

    There's no need to go by region... Just a random draw or 2 groups - random
     
  18. Kingston

    Kingston Member+

    Oct 6, 2005
    Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly, you're proposing a group stage with teams of all levels? So one group of six and one of seven (assuming Ottawa's in)? Followed by playoffs.

    I think this makes the tournament too long. It would be more difficult to sustain interest seeing the D3 teams get pummelled five or six times and would be a lot of time to sort which CPL teams join the MLS teams in the playoffs. (A longer tournament will favour the higher salary MLS teams because it makes a single upset less important.)

    If you want to do a group stage, make it four small groups with the group winners going on.

    I'm not sure how this would be particularly unfair to the MLS teams. It seems like a lot of extra games for everyone but it's the same regardless of level, isn't it?
     
  19. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    That would be fun. FA Cup style is more realistic...I just don't believe in byes.
     
  20. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The FA Cup has eight rounds (including using the words "preliminary" and "qualifying") before clubs at the top two levels enter. If the amount of clubs is not a power of 2, and there is not a group stage, there would have to be some byes. Any amount of clubs from 9 through 15 requires a group stage or byes.
     
  21. rickie22

    rickie22 New Member

    Vancouver Whitecaps FC
    Nov 25, 2017
    Vancouver, Canada
    I've been intrigued on how the 2019 Voyageurs Cup tournament will be set up.

    Regarding the OP, does Lanaudière get to represent PLSQ as the cup winners? Should it not be league winners Blainville?

    Could we get to 16 teams and do a straight elimination bracket? 13 teams right now, add the cup winners of L1O and PLSQ, and the Challenge Trophy winners?
     
  22. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    My bad, you're a 100% correct. AS Blainville is going, not FC Lanaudiere.

    AS Blainville advance to Canadian Championship
    [​IMG]
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Polygong repped this.
  24. Polygong

    Polygong Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 8, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Just wondering how they decided which CPL teams came in round one and which came in round 2.
     
  25. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    FC Edmonton previously played in the tournament. Valour and Forge joined the CSA in 2017 while the rest joined in 2018.

    Terrible format if you ask me and it's getting a lot of negative feedback
     

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