2018 MLS Week 15 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by bhooks, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The assignments for Week 15 of the 2018 Major League Soccer season:

    06/08/2018

    Philadelphia Union v Toronto FC
    Talen Energy Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: BALDOMERO TOLEDO
    AR1: EDUARDO MARISCAL
    AR2: BRIAN DUNN
    4TH: MARCOS DEOLIVEIRA
    VAR: JORGE GONZALEZ

    06/09/2018

    New York City FC v Atlanta United
    Yankee Stadium (12:30PM ET)
    REF: ROBERT SIBIGA
    AR1: ERIC WEISBROD
    AR2: CJ MORGANTE
    4TH: SILVIU PETRESCU
    VAR: EDVIN JURISEVIC

    Columbus Crew v New York Red Bulls
    MAPFRE Stadium (5PM ET)
    REF: ALAN KELLY
    AR1: MATTHEW NELSON
    AR2: LOGAN BROWN
    4TH: RUBIEL VAZQUEZ
    VAR: JON FREEMON

    Vancouver Whitecaps v Orlando City
    BC Place (7PM ET)
    REF: JOSE CARLOS RIVERO
    AR1: BRIAN POESCHEL
    AR2: CHRIS WATTAM
    4TH: DAVE GANTAR
    VAR: GEOFF GAMBLE

    FC Dallas v Montreal Impact
    Toyota Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: NIMA SAGHAFI
    AR1: APOLINAR MARISCAL
    AR2: MICHAEL KAMPMEINERT
    4TH: FOTIS BAZAKOS
    VAR: GUIDO GONZALEZ

    Chicago Fire v New England Revolution
    Toyota Park (8:30PM ET)
    REF: KEVIN STOTT
    AR1: PETER BALCIUNAS
    AR2: JEREMY KIESO
    4TH: KEVIN BROADLEY
    VAR: JORGE GONZALEZ

    Houston Dynamo v Colorado Rapids
    BBVA Compass Stadium (9PM ET)
    REF: DREW FISCHER
    AR1: PETER MANIKOWSKI
    AR2: DANNY THORNBERRY
    4TH: ELVIS OSMANOVIC
    VAR: DAVID BARRIE

    Seattle Sounders v D.C. United
    CenturyLink Field (10PM ET)
    REF: SORIN STOICA
    AR1: IAN ANDERSON
    AR2: JOSE DA SILVA
    4TH: DANIEL RADFORD
    VAR: YOUNES MARRAKCHI

    LA Galaxy v Real Salt Lake
    StubHub Center (10:30PM ET)
    REF: TED UNKEL
    AR1: KYLE ATKINS
    AR2: JEFFREY GREESON
    4TH: ALEJANDRO MARISCAL
    VAR: KEVIN TERRY JR

    Portland Timbers v Sporting Kansas City
    Providence Park (10:30PM ET)
    REF: CHRISTOPHER PENSO
    AR1: JEREMY HANSON
    AR2: JEFF HOSKING
    4TH: JOSEPH DICKERSON
    VAR: ALEX CHILOWICZ

    San Jose Earthquakes v Los Angeles FC
    Avaya Stadium (10:30PM ET)
    REF: HILARIO GRAJEDA
    AR1: CAMERON BLANCHARD
    AR2: NICK URANGA
    4TH: MALIK BADAWI
    VAR: LUIS GUARDIA
     
  2. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    From what my google searching finds it looks like we have two new faces in the league this week, both of whom come in having done middles in both the NWSL and USL

    Chicago Fire v New England Revolution
    Toyota Park (8:30PM ET)
    4TH: KEVIN BROADLEY

    Houston Dynamo v Colorado Rapids
    BBVA Compass Stadium (9PM ET)
    4TH: ELVIS OSMANOVIC
     
  3. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Speaking of new faces...

    Bethlehem Steel v Louisville City
    Goodman Stadium (5PM ET)
    4TH: JAY HUTCHINSON


    Congratulations to one of our own! I think that's his first USL assignment, but I could be late to the party...
     
  4. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I notice Jorge G. back on at not one, but two VAR's this cycle. I'm not sure what the consequence is for blowing a VAR as badly as he did two weeks ago...I know he was replaced last week, but I suppose for someone like Gonzalez (or Marrufo or Stott, etc.) the negative consequence for poor VAR work is having to keep doing it. PRO can't afford to bench them, and these guys would way rather be a 4th or in the middle than up in the booth. It reminds me of the husband who breaks dishes he dries so he doesn't have to dry them.
     
  5. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Checked in US Soccer GameOfficials using the Reports feature, it lists 12 prior USL assignments for said member. On the PRO website the USL assignment archives for past years are inaccessible for some reason.
     
  6. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yah I'm late to the party lol
     
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  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is an official matrix for VAR scoring, so the real consequence is still getting fired and/or losing all assignments.

    Your point about PRO not being able to afford to bench a VAR is pretty spot-on. In reality, as we've alluded to, until the new trialists start appearing more regularly, PRO can't afford to bench anyone. So removal from an assignment on a short notice a pretty big deal.

    I think the one thing I disagree with you on is VARs wanting to be between the benches instead of in the booth. Maybe there are exceptions, based on personalities, but I tend to think most PRO members would rather be in the booth helping with major decisions as opposed to sitting between two MLS coaches and babysitting. The only real reason to prefer a 4th over a VAR is if you're a younger official who hasn't had a middle (like Gonzales Jr. or Guardia) because in that scenario it's a stepping stone to a whistle.

    Also, as an aside, remember that some of the exclusively-assigned VARs are being tasked with that role because they haven't passed fitness yet.
     
    jarbitro repped this.
  8. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Speaking of that, there's still one referee trial slot to be used by PRO this season. Curious if it will be another game for Dickerson/Touchan/Rivas or if one of those others gets the call this year.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This gets into some CBA stuff, but I believe Dickerson (and Gonzales Jr.) essentially have to be hired into the bargaining unit now (or have already been hired in) based on the number of assignments and type of assignments they've had or are about to have. So, theoretically, PRO could argue that Dickerson's middles were no longer "trialist" spots, which would in turn re-open them for some more experimentation. Not sure what PSRA's official position would be on that, though.
     
  10. oldmanreferee

    oldmanreferee Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    Mountain View, ca


    Thought Broadley worked earlier.

    Osmanovic I worked with him a few years and I hope he does better this time than he did with my DA coach. He screamed and threw a water bottle 3 times and 2 times kicked the tent.
     
  11. Lucky Wilbury

    Lucky Wilbury Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    United States
    Isn't this the online posting version of kicking a tent and throwing a water bottle?
     
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  12. oldmanreferee

    oldmanreferee Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    Mountain View, ca
    Yeah your right and if you want to be your own judge what his Miami United vs Orlando city open cup match.
     
  13. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't believe he has. I can only find USL/NWSL centers/4th's for him.
     
  14. oldmanreferee

    oldmanreferee Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    Mountain View, ca
    Ok was thinking he as geigers 4th when. He sent off seba
     
  15. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    I meant to say this last week, but I saw Dickerson center the Thorns - Courage match and thought he did an excellent job. Hope to see him continue to grow.
     
  16. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    If you're talking about the New England game, that was David Barrie
     
  17. oldmanreferee

    oldmanreferee Member

    Dec 28, 2005
    Mountain View, ca
    Oh sorry. Thanks for. Clarifying
     
  18. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #18 code1390, Jun 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
    The opening goal between Dallas and Montreal is very interesting. A FK comes in and two Dallas players are in an offside position. The flag goes up as the ball ends up in the net. VAR gets involved and we eventually end up with a good goal.

    The replay shows the ball bounced off of two Montreal defenders and bounced in for an own goal. The question becomes if one of the two players in an offside position interfered with an opponent.

    I'm really surprised that this goal was awarded. For me it meets the definition of challenging an opponent and it was correctly called offside live. I feel strongly that this wasn't a clear and obvious error. I will note that the center did not look at the video and took the advice of the VAR.

    Thoughts?

    https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/m...allas-vs-montreal-impact/details/video/157456

    Just so were on the same page, here is what PRO talks about for challenging an opponent.

    In this Part 1 section we are going to look at the meaning of "challenging an opponent" for the ball.
    In regards to an offside situation, three elements need to be present to meet the criteria for challenging an opponent

    1. Attempts to play
    2. Playing distance
    3. Action that has impact
    A player is offside if he clearly attempts to play a ball which is close to him when this action impacts on an opponent.
    In this case, I think the attempt to play the ball and playing distance is met. Could we argue that the action didn't impact an opponent?
     
  19. jdmahoney

    jdmahoney Member

    Feb 28, 2017
    Plymouth, MN
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Just out of curiousity, does anyone know if/when Jurisevic is returning to on field duty? I don’t think he’s done anything in the last 3 years outside of a couple friendlies so I was wondering if anyone knew if he will ever return to centering in the MLS.
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My initial thought is I agree with you. It’s close. But I think challenging an opponent is at least defensible, if not outright correct. I can understand an argument that it was not “challenging” and that the player in an OSP did not make an action that had a clear impact, but that’s subjective and gray—certainly not “clearly wrong.”

    This is another good example of VR leading to more inconsistency, rather than establishing consistency.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My understanding is that he wants to return but a nagging injury prevents him from passing fitness. So he’s VAR-only for now. If and when he can pass fitness, PRO will be obligated to assign him some middles.
     
  22. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    It will ne interesting to see if this shows up in PRO’s weekly AR review. I’m with the AR on this—it looks to me like the OSP attacker makes contact with the defender that plays the ball. I don’t see how that can be anything other than interfering with an opponent.
     
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  23. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We don't get a good look, but I don't think there was contact. It's probably the reason why the VAR felt he could say the offside player didn't have an impact on the opponent.
     
  24. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another one we can debate comes from LA-RSL. Potential DOGSO, but Unkel went yellow.

    So two questions: is DOGSO the preferred call? If so, is it clear enough to recommend a review? No review was made in this instance.
     
    Ismitje repped this.
  25. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's very close. I think DOGSO may just barely be the preferred call and I don't think it was clear enough for VAR to get involved no matter what Unkel gave.
     

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