I may be playing devil's advocate here, but is it possible that Petrasso got yellow for his reaction to the slap? I mean, him falling to the floor with Zlatan was practically synchronized diving. Of course, MLS's box score says the yellow is for "Unsporting Behavior", which doesn't give much of a clue, as usual with MLS's box scores.
I've said this elsewhere, but Australia has been the only place that went down this path. For clear VC, the VAR can simply tell the referee of his decision. PRO and other authorities--including FIFA--just aren't there yet. But you're right that it has to be part of the evolution. Oh wow! I presumed from the link above that the ball was out of play when all this happened. Um, yeah, this seems like a huge problem. Unless they are saying the yellow card is for embellishment or something done after the slap that we don't see on video, the restart needed to be a penalty kick. I take back my comment about it being a smart piece of refereeing. It's now a great example of getting yourself into trouble by trying to be too creative.
Me personally? Never. But I've been intentionally hit in the head harder than that playing sports before and I didn't feel the need to belatedly fall to the floor after, either.
Totally legitimate response. But I think the "never" portion is much more important than the question of when it becomes unfair for a player to fall to the ground when he gets deliberately smacked in the head. Also, not to go too far down the rabbit hole but simulation is supposed to be an act meant to deceive the referee. This is a red card no matter what--whether the player falls or whether he stands his ground. Calling more attention to it by hitting the ground isn't really a form of deception.
Sure, I'll agree with you on simulation from a detached, rational point of view. But there's some cynicism about regarding simulation in soccer that is clouding my viewpoint a little bit, too.
I don't think this play does belie that. This play was not a thought out stupid play, it was an instant, thoughtless lashing when stepped on. I don't think (and never did) that VR will stop this kind of stupid, instinctive misbehavior, but I do see it as reducing/limiting the sneaky, calculated kind of misbehavior where the miscreant previously would have thought he could get away with it. (Completely agree with the mess of the caution.)
Interesting take on Unkel's calls. Earlier in the match he pulled back a goal for a supposed foul on the goal keeper (both went up for the ball GK didn't get it no foul there IMO). Then late in the game there's this sequence you mention where there is an actual foul on the GK (attacker comes in with arm straight to the face of GK when both going for the ball) which isn't called, but he should get praise for later calling the penalty? Ignoring the completely missed foul seconds earlier, any CR who doesn't call the punch to the face as a PK should be fired, no special praise for getting that right.
Interesting that you chose to say I had a take on his “calls” when, you know, I didn’t (and don’t). I didn’t watch the match. I saw the highlight of the penalty. My point, which was pretty clear but I’ll repeat since you don’t seem to understand, is one I’ve made before. And it is that historically keepers get away with far more than they should, including dangerous play toward the heads of opponents, because the game hasn’t expected a call in such situations. So despite the focus on head injuries the past few years, that dynamic won’t change until referees and the authorities make and support such calls with regularity. Unkel calling a penalty in the 97th minute to rightly punish such a foul is critics to changing a culture that has existed for decades. And that’s regardless of what else happened in the game.
I suspect the disallowed goal was because Kamara made contact with the keeper's hands. The TV angles were poor, however. Before the penalty, I saw no obvious foul by Vancouver.
I don't recall ever seeing a GK punch someone in the face like that in MLS and get away with. But if you say it's a common problem in refereeing I believe you, though I'm not sure if anyone would argue against PK for that regardless of the time.
I've rewatched that penalty call, and I do agree that Maurer was fouled first. High arm in his face. Kamara definitely fouled Maurer on the disallowed goal, no matter what the IR guys think.
Having seen this on Instant Replay now, I agree with you on both counts. On the penalty call, I'm a bit surprised the VAR didn't intervene. You can review a foul in the APP that leads to a penalty call. So if the VAR determines that not calling the face to the arm of Maurer is clearly wrong, he can recommend a review and the penalty can be annulled.
It's the idea that goalkeepers can do whatever they want once the ball is gone and a shot has been taken. From Schumacher in the World Cup to Reis in MLS, there's just always been a historical penchant for "well, he got the shot off..." And last year when the Vancouver penalty was called very late for a play just like this, that spurred a lot of debate. So calling these consistently is important if that culture is going to be erased. Of course, getting the entire sequence of events right is critical, too.
We might end up having to agree to disagree here, because I do mostly disagree. There are heat of the moment reactions when confrontations occur that the presence of VAR will never prevent. Totally on board with you there. But slapping someone upside the head off-the-ball when no one is looking just because your toe got stepped on is not, in my book, a "thoughtless lashing." People get stepped on all the time. We don't have a epidemic of off-the-ball head slaps to deal with, though. When something like this happens, it's because a player--often a star player--thinks he can get away with it and thinks he's above the Law. Do I think it's premeditated in the sense that he said to himself "oh great, I'm going to slap him if he gets near me?" Of course not. But a player who would fear getting caught might do something like shove the player away, rather than fully slap his opponent in the head.
Sigi Schmid has latched onto the yellow card: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...id-guys-really-pulled-together-after-red-card
I guess the pendulum is starting to slowly change and that's good for the game. I guess my question is what should be the bar for serious foul play when it comes to plays like this? Where is the bar for reckless and excessive force for challenges like these? By any reasonable measure, a two handed "punch" should be a red card. Or is a penalty and yellow enough?
This is why I've always thought there needs to be better instruction on goalkeeper challenges. My position is that a punch by a goalkeeper is a natural and expected play. It's not a punch like any other player would throw. In that regard, the act of punching is a goalkeeper's aerial version of tackling. It's not inherently excessive force to punch and miss or punch and be a little late. I think when a goalkeeper is clearly late, like he was in the Unkel situation, yellow is the correct call. His lateness shows he's acted with complete disregard for the consequences to his opponent, so it's reckless. I'm less interested in figuring out why or when such situations could be red cards. Unless there's a deliberate attempt to punch an opponent (and therefore VC), I don't think that's a problem we need to address. I'm more interested in the other side of the spectrum. Namely, when will punching both the ball and the opponent be sanctioned as a careless foul and a PK, similar to the way that bad tackles which get some of the ball get sanctioned? Only when we get to that point will the culture have really changed around head injuries. And I still think we're a long way from that right now.
Judging force when the GK collides with an opponent is really difficult for me. Just the nature of the sport can lead to some very heavy if not violent collisions. The last few posts in this thread reminded me of a PK given in the Premier League this year. https://www.nbcsports.com/video/cry...vojevic-scores-penalty-kick-against-liverpool This is an example of a GK and striker colliding and Swarbrick correctly going yellow -- both because it was DOGSO yellow and reckless.
I've said this before a few times, but I'll repeat it again--Elfath has problems using VAR. This is probably the third time he has seriously messed up a PK restart *after* looking at VAR. He has also had a red card that he gave through VAR overturned by the league. These are mistakes he doesn't make in real time, but somehow he has a hard time going through sequential thinking on video review, such as "now that I've determined its a foul, what should the restart be?" I wonder if he has been misinformed on the protocol (as in he thinks he can add a card, but not change the location of the restart)? Because this is similar to other mistakes he's made with VAR, its just the first time a coach has called him out on it.
That's completely fair, and I don't think we'll get to the point, anytime soon, where you punch the ball and then clean out the attacker should be a penalty. It would completely change the nature of goal keeping. Heck, I gave a penalty on a play very similar to the Unkel situation (in the final 10 minutes of the match as well) on a men's amateur match and all hell broke loose after I gave it. Had to toss a manager, gave a red for dissent and then had to give a red after the match for AL. Heard all kinds of reasons for why it wasn't a penalty. "He was going for the ball," "He's a goal keeper, he's got a right to the ball, etc." Getting the ball and then cleaning out the attacker and calling the penalty is a bridge too far I feel. We still see referees at the professional level not give penalties on studs up tackles where the defender gets the ball and then cleans out the attacker. See the Ashley Young challenge in the recent Manchester Derby. Anywhere else on the field Ashley Young, at minimum, is getting a yellow card and probably a red. It's also why, as you said before, criticizing Rizzoli for not calling the PK on Neur in the World Cup Final in 2014 was completely unfair to him. Make a call that no one has ever seen before in a professional match.
Try figuring out what VAR would do with the Neuer play. I think there are seven legitimate outcomes that could be considered and debated. And that's exactly why I think you'd end up with a VAR determining the foul call against Higuain was not clearly wrong.
It's not in the attacking phase, is it? After the foul, the defender kicks the ball, which resets, right?