2018 MLS Week 12 Referee Discussion

TBC in New York is Matt Nelson.

Marrufo/Rockwell last match before the WC, as well as Frank Anderson and Fletcher. Geiger finishes with a VAR spot.

Floodgates are going to start to open with new or more frequent "newish" names from the Memorial Day weekend through the World Cup.

 

They are correct. I believe he might be injured right now so using him where he can work while he recovers.

 

Another week and another fun offside decision to debate.

Toronto's first goal.

https://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/m...to-fc-vs-orlando-city-sc/details/video/154051

Was Ricketts offside? I think the answer is pretty clearly no. He didn't touch the final shot and there was no opponent to interfere with.

The talking point is the original pass from Bradley to Vasquez who then put Ricketts through. Vasquez appears to be in an offside position.



The question becomes is the touch by the Orlando defender after Bradley's pass a deflection or deliberate play? It's a tougher decision than the Atlanta one. The ball comes from further away and it isn't the paciest of passes.

So what say you. A deflection or deliberate play?

FWIW I lean towards deliberate play, but it's very close. I believe this to be much closer to a 50/50 decision than the Atlanta offside decision last week. However, it shares the "player suddenly react and stick a leg out" that Howard Webb talked about after last weeks match.

EDIT: I also think the VAR was correct in not getting involved. This was a very close decision and since it's an opinion...."clear and obvious" comes into play. I think last week was clear and obvious. This one is not.

 

Distance and time to react. 6 yards vs 15 yards. 0.2 seconds vs 0.6 seconds.

It also shares similarities. I think it's an interesting example and I'm looking forward to PROs opinion. This was much closer to the magic line between deflection vs deliberate than the Atlanta example.

 

The problem here isn’t that there were different ultimate decisions tonight vs. last week. As we’ve both said, there is a sliding scale with both distance and reaction time so at some point, similar looking plays will get different decisions. That’s just a reality when dealing with subjective decisions.

The problem is establishing how and understanding why “clearly wrong” or “clear and obvious” apply to situations like this. I can explain to fans why one decision is onside and one is offside, even if they disagree. It’s harder to explain why one gets reviewed and the other one doesn’t. And that lends itself to the idea that either Geiger’s shouldn’t have been reviewed last week (even if, once it was, he gave the preferred decision) or tonight’s should have at least been reviewed on-field so there was consistency.

 

Interesting VAR usage in Atlanta. The angle that Geiger showed Penso gave a great view of the trip.

I think it's clearly a foul. I also think the problem continues to be the word "obvious". Can a foul be clear but not obvious?

 

I think this is why we need to stick to clearly wrong as the verbiage. The defender had no chance to make a good play on the ball because he was fouled. It’s clearly wrong to allow a goal there (if you have a VAR and can help it, of course).

Separately, Unkel’s very late PK in the Dallas game was an important moment. He rightly called and booked a keeper for clearing out an attacker by being late and striking him in the head. These are the types of fouls “the game” has accepted. I’ve defended referees before for not calling them because nobody calls them. And I’ve said the only way that changes is if the calls start getting made and competiton authorities clearly say the calls were right because we need to do everything to prevent head injuries. I hope PRO highlights this because it is a great example and sets a good standard. Calling that took guts and Unkel deserves praise.

 

Which is why I wish that word wasn't included in the 2018/19 LOTG section covering VAR.

 

Oh my...

 

This should be a yellow.

 

Geiger is, almost quite literally, putting on a VAR clinic here. FIFA will be watching this and I’ve got to assume they will like what they see.

This is what VR is supposed to be right now.

 

Foul in the build-up on this goal?

EDIT: Geiger says no.

 

I think the direct impact it might have had on preventing the goal—rightly or wrongly—plays a role there. As good as the VAR use has been thus far, this incident does show some of its limits insofar as quelling controversy. If Geiger intervened everyone from NYRB would rightly say the intervention is tenuous. When he doesn’t, Atlanta fans will say it’s inconsistent with their ruled out goal.

 

Again...?

 

Yep. That's red.

 

From a technical perspective, a bit surprised that isn’t DOGSO via VAR.

From a practical perspective, there might be only so much Geiger can do to Penso. There are human limits, too.

 

At least Fotis got a hug.

 

That's red too.

 

And here’s another test. Wow.

 

Penso is ready for his hotel and Geiger is ready for Russia after this one.

EDIT: He got it without VAR.