2018 CONCACAF Champions League Thread

Thjis sums up so many problems facing MLS: Toronto v Montreal is considered a derby. They're just about the same distance apart as Berlin and Munich. The difference being that essentially the entire Bundesliga is in between Berlin and Munich, while Montreal and Toronto actually are what counts as a derby in most of MLSland. Are Vancouver matches also considered derbys? Montreal- Vancouver is more than twice the distance of Berlin- Moscow, and not that much less than Berlin-Montreal.
MLSland is massive, and wealthy, and wildly diverse.
Which is a long way of saying that the gap between Liga MX and MLS will narrow, because it is clearly in the best interests of both MLS and Liga MX that it narrows, but there are some structural issues that mean it might take a while.
That said, to this point in 2018, Toronto has yet to play close to as well as it was playing in 2017. With a couple more games under it's belt, the CA matchup should be quite good.

 

The Tigres TFC defeated is no wet noodle. Actually, anyone who knows their futbol considers them one of the top two teams in the region and a fairly strong side.

 

If soccer and its fans are so weak that they need proximity to form good rivalries, then that's on them. There's no lack of quality rivals in every other major professional sport here.

DC and Dallas are about 1300 miles apart, with Philly and NY even farther from Dallas, yet when the NFL changed to it's current 32 team setup they made sure to keep those teams together. The only thing lacking in MLS is the time to establish generational rivalries.

 

There's nothing to stop the US and Canada using the term differently and differentiating between a derby and a local derby.

Other words are used differently. For instance, an American robin is from a completely different genus to a robin anywhere else.

 

El Clásico

Thx,

Jay

 

Which means you missed my entire point. The ridiculously flawed initial post claimed that MLS can't have rivalries because teams are too far apart from each other. I'm saying it's moronic to think that since distance is only one small part of the equation for potential rivalries.

If the original post was right then America and Chivas wouldn't be a rivalry because of the distance between the cities. It's a laughable concept.

 

Rivalry and derby don't mean the same thing, not exactly. Derby implies proximity.

 

Although proximity may help to form rivalries--on the field chemistry and the events that transpire between to teams as they play each other over time are more important. Just as an example: No one in their right mind would have ever thought there was any type of chemistry (good or bad) between such distant teams as Dallas, San Francisco, and Green Bay, yet the 90's in the NFL were determined by the intensity of the games between these three teams.

In MLS some rivalries have been established---most of them though started out as rivalries being pushed by the fans or by the league. Only a few sprouted naturally as a result of on the field play and history.
Red Bulls-DC United started out as a fan rivalry due to proximity but there is legitimate heat there. Red Bulls-NYC FC has established itself in a very short amount of time as a rivalry for local bragging rights and the boorish behavior of fans before and after these games has only served to increase the heat.

LA Galaxy-Seattle established itself in my mind as an intense playoff rivalry on the west coast. Galaxy-Earthquakes used to be good back in the day but seems to have fizzled over the years. Galaxy-Chivas USA was very real, unfortunately Chivas USA is no longer around. Let's hope LAFC can prove to be a good replacement rivalry-wise. Then of course you have the intense Portland-Vancouver,Seattle triangle. Earthquakes-Houston was real--but also seems to have run out of gas the last few years.

The midwest i know little about. Is RSL-Colorado considered a rivalry? Columbus vs Dallas? Dallas-Houston? Sporting KC-Houston?

 

Barcelona - Espanyol = Derby
Barcelona - Real Madrid = Rivalry

 

Clasico motgerfvckers, clasico!

 

Hey, it is the 401 Derby! Toronto and Montreal are on the same highway. Just get on the 401 and drive about 5 hrs and you are at the other teams stadium. That is proximity in Canada. It's not like trying to get to Nunavut or Haida Gwaii.

 

Hi, we'd like to introduce ourselves

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_Cup

 

As noted, el clasico is a rivalry. It's a massive rivalry. It is not a derby. The difference was in the post you quoted.
My point was not that MLS does not and cannot have rivalries. Obviously it can and does. It even has a couple traditional definition derbies in NY and LA.
My point was, as was noted above, when a "derby" (local rivalry) entails getting on the highway and heading five hours across country, that says something about the soccer density of a region. It is a challenge MLS faces that Euro leagues do not.
Within a five hour drive from here not only do you find almost every Bundesliga club, but most of the Polish league, the Dutch league, the Danish league, the Latvian league, the Belgian league, the Swedish league and the Czech League.
If you expand that to, say, Kansas City - Denver (Kansas City's closest "rival" (in quotes because not really)) and you can include the French, Italian, Estonian, Ukrainian, English, Norwegian, Finnish, all of the Balkan leagues, Hugarian, Romanian and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.
Density matters in building a new league. It's a challenge MLS faces. I'm not saying they can't deal with it, i think they are doing a great job to this point. I'm saying I believe that a lot of the issues they face can be seen in this lack of density, and an example of that lack of density is that matches considered crazy far travel over here are considered derbys in MLS.

 

Not having "derbys" isn't a challenge. It's not even a minor inconvenience. It's meaningless trivia, at best.

 

Not having even a shadow of the density of clubs is a challenge.

 

All of our national sports leagues (mlb, nba, nfl, nhl) are built this way though----it is very rare in american pro-sports to have a thick density of clubs. That has not kept american pro sports leagues from being successful. The size of the country (size of a continent) makes it impractical. The only exception i can think of to this phenomenon might be ncaa football and basketball and that's on the college level not on the pro-league level.
Let me just put it this way--the day we have such a density of soccer clubs in this country will be the day that Div II will no longer be in chaos and the day we know that soccer will have arrived in a big way.

 

Derby isnot only about proximity of the clubs to each other (as that is a relative concept), but it also is about the fans occupying the same living space, like Feyenoord and Sparta Rotterdam and Excelsior that can be found in a circle with a radius of 6 kilometers or Celtic and Rangers in Glasgow etc.

 

Mmm, I'm not good at irony or sarcasm so I've no clue what you really mean. But if it is as you posted than I conclude you've alot to learn about soccer.
The existance of derbies signals to those who've got a clue about soccer that that country is a very strong developed soccer nation that it has given rise to multiple clubs in a short distance.

 

Why? Other than anecdotal BS, why?

 

Yep. More metro areas over 2 million and 1 million in the US than the entire EU.

Comparing MLS to any individual Euro league is like comparing apples to grocery stores, and there's no lack of competition at either size if you know what your'e doing.

 

Nope, I know that and it's the reason why I think Pro/Rel isnot viable in the States the way it has put up soccer to function. If you start with putting dots in the biggest markets in a country the size of the USA, you can triple etc. that number of dots and still lag behind the coverage existing in Europe. So my comment was targeted towards a poster I donot know of if he was serious in his comment, but from his obviously America biased view has no clue about soccer when it comes to derbies and it's relevance.

 

Despite Canada's size, derbies are expected in the Canadian Premier League.

Victoria-Surrey or Vancouver= 3 hour, 15 min drive including ferry
Vancouver-Surrey= 30 minutes drive or 45 min. subway

Calgary-Edmonton=3 hour drive

Regina-Saskatoon=2h30 drive

Half of Canada lives in the Windsor-Quebec Corridor
Any teams between Windsor-Toronto: less than 4 hours by train (Euro High speed trains planned by Ontario,travel time could be half)
Teams within Toronto-Montreal: less than 4h30 (faster trains planned by Federal government)

Montreal-Quebec City: less than 3 hours
(faster trains planned by Quebec and Federal government)

Moncton-Halifax: 2h30 drive

I'm sure there will be rilvaries like in the NHL and CFL like Alberta vs BC, Prairies teams, Quebec vs Ontario and the Maritime teams