Putting aside Individual11's MLS defense, in what situation would MM have been better than signing with Chelsea? Should he have signed with an Vitesse or Nantes? How would that have helped his career, in addition to making him less wealthy? Should he have signed with a lower level EPL club - would he even be ready to play at that level or would he sit on the reserve squad?
It should be mentioned that two of our potential breakout youngsters got called into the USMNT camp. First callups for Reggie Cannon and Jonathan Amon!! Players eligible for the upcoming US U23 team (and thus still considered youth players in the eyes of the USYNT forum) bolded. By the way, an oddity based on availability, injuries, and selection: Pulisic, McKennie, and Adams have never played together. This could be the first time. GOALKEEPERS (3): Brad Guzan (Atlanta United FC; 58/0), Ethan Horvath (Club Brugge/BEL; 2/0), Zack Steffen (Columbus Crew SC; 6/0) DEFENDERS (8): John Brooks (Wolfsburg/GER; 34/3), Reggie Cannon (FC Dallas; 0/0), Cameron Carter-Vickers (Swansea City/WAL; 5/0), Aaron Long (New York Red Bulls; 0/0), Matt Miazga (Nantes/FRA; 9/1), Antonee Robinson (Wigan Athletic/ENG; 4/0), Ben Sweat (New York City FC; 0/0), DeAndre Yedlin (Newcastle United/ENG; 54/0) MIDFIELDERS (10): Kellyn Acosta (Colorado Rapids; 19/1), Tyler Adams (New York Red Bulls; 7/1), Jonathan Amon (Nordsjælland/DEN; 0/0), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC/CAN; 140/17), Julian Green (Greuther Fürth/GER; 12/4), Weston McKennie (Schalke/GER; 6/1), Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund/GER; 21/9), Kenny Saief (Anderlecht/BEL; 2/0), Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew SC; 8/0), Tim Weah (Paris Saint-Germain; 5/1) FORWARDS (3): Andrija Novakovich (Fortuna Sittard/NED; 2/0), Josh Sargent (Werder Bremen/GER; 3/1), Bobby Wood (Hannover 96/GER; 41/12)
I hadn't really thought about it until you highlighted those players, but the Olympic team could be really strong if they qualify. Just with age-eligible players, you could have the below lineup. -----------------------------Klinsmann----------------------------- Cannon------------CCV--------------EPB-----------Robinson ----------------Adams---------------------McKinnie--------------- --------------------------------Pulisic--------------------------------- ------Weah-----------------------------------------------Amon----- -------------------------------Sargent-------------------------------- You'd obviously want to use one of the over-23 slots in the Olympics on a goalkeeper, but that lineup is really solid everywhere else. I'd say Steffen, Yedlin, and Brooks would be the three players to add, starting over Klinsmann, Cannon, and EPB. The above lineup could also work in a flat 4-4-2, with Pulisic shifting out to the right wing and Weah moving up alongside Sargent.
I understand the dream, but it probably won't happen. European teams don't have to release players for the Olympics. I don't have the exact dates but it is early August/late July in Japan. Why would Dortmund want Pulisic playing days before the beginning of the season half a world away? Even if USSF did want senior players playing on the Olympic team, I doubt Sargent, Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, Robinson and maybe by then, Amon Weah, CCV, and EPB are released. The best scenario would be for those players to play in the Copa America earlier that Summer and then have a mostly domestic U23 team play in the Olympics.
If I understand correctly the problem is that clubs aren't required to release players for the Olympic qualifiers, the CONCACAF U23 championships. HOWEVER, U23 players are required to be released for the Olympics themselves. The overage players aren't required to be released. I think this is the agreement that the European Club Association, FIFA, and the IOC came to........... [These are all negotiations with clubs, though. We want a good relationship with a club like Dortmund vis-a-vi Pulisic.] Of course, we have no U23 coach and have played no U23 games since 2016. So...........................
Correct, they are required to be released for the Olympics themselves, and every one of those age-eligible players, other than maybe Klinsmann, has more than shown he would jump at the chance to represent the U.S. in the Olympics. That motivation is going to be even stronger coming off a missed World Cup. The overage players will probably be there, too, since it's during the offseason/preseason. The challenge, as we've seen in recent cycles, is getting there. Many, probably most, of the Europe-based players won't be available for qualification, so the team will effectively be playing a B team to qualify.
Yup. We've failed to qualify for 3 of the past 4 Olympics. So we really should solely be focusing on what we'll do in the CONCACAF U23 Championships. RIGHT NOW we should be preparing a U23 squad with a specific focus on building depth (as we're likely to miss many of our top Euro-based players). Alas..................... Current domestic U23 national team is a really tough one. [I pulled this out of my ass so I'm sure folks will have better suggestions. [And keep in mind that a player like Adams might be in Europe by then.] ------------Ebobisse------------ Carleton--Mihailovic---Pomykal ----------Durkin----Adams----- Acosta---Glad----Trusty-----Cannon ----------Marcinkowski--------- What one notices is that now the talent level has dropped to being more than susceptible to CONCACAF-level competition. We'll have a pretty good defense (guys like Jaylin LIndsey, Mark McKenzie, Brooks Lennon, etc. are also options). And we'll get a couple of our Euro guys. Maybe somebody like Parks will be released. Who knows? But once you take out the "difference making" guys like Pulisic, McKennie, Sargent, Weah, and company in Europe.......................its not particularly awe-inspiring. By the way, last U23 cycle it wasn't awe inspiring WITH the Euro-based guys. We couldn't get Brooks and Yedlin for the defense. Otherwise, there just wasn't anybody. Klinsmann was quite worried about that group, which he called a "lost generation." And he's been right. A shockingly low number have become USMNT regulars. Some due to injury (Zelalem, Serna, Packwood, Pelosi, etc.) That U23 team should be the core of the USMNT right now. I mean, people blame players like Jozy and Bradley for the WCQing debacle. But just as big of a problem was the dearth of 25 year olds advancing thru the pool to replace them. The forwards on that team were Jerome Kiesewetter, Maki Tall, Alonso Hernandez, and Jordan Morris (struck down by injury of late). So that's why we had to count on somebody like Jozy so much in WCQing. Anyway............I digress. My point is that having a large number of youngsters in Europe deemed too important for clubs to release..................is a great problem to have!!!!!!! It just means we SHOULD really be working hard right now to develop depth. We're not.
MLSSoccer.com's 22 under 22 list. 2) Adams, 7) Cannon, 9) Glad, 10) Trusty are the highest ranked US eligible players. https://www.mlssoccer.com/series/22-under-22/2018
I have a full-time job, plus a side consulting gig, and have spoken to players like Efra and Jonathan Gonzalez more than Tab has. Tab is a bad recruiter.
Keep in mind that it was actually Tab that recruited Jonathan Gonzalez to the U20s (up a cycle) in the first place before 99.5% of the people on these boards had heard of him. But whatever. Efra right now is in Mexico's U17 team. Why are people not blaming the U17 staff for dropping the ball of him? I'll grant you that we have no permanent U19, U18, or U17 coaching staffs right now. And our scouting apparatus is in dissaray. Tab isn't a perfect human being. But I do believe that he's a human being that can only do so much............................ The job as youth technical director when he took it was described as: https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/11/30/tab-ramos-named-us-soccer-youth-technical-director As Youth Technical Director, Ramos will oversee the long-term strategies for development of both coaches and players at the youth level in the United States, working closely with U.S. Men’s National Team head coach Jurgen Klinsmann and the Youth National Team coaches. Ramos is the second person to hold the position, following Claudio Reyna. In other words that role is one of strategic thinking with regards to player development in the Development Academy and USYNTs. Its not a scouting and recruiting role. We're supposed to have a different network for that. Now he's also the U20 national team coach. We can ask if he's tried to recruit Efrain to the US U20s. I don't know the answer to that. What we do know is it seems Efrain's problems with the US program occurred at lower youth levels when he was (reportedly) kicked out of a camp for discipline issues. Had ZERO to do with Tab Ramos. I'm coming off as a big Tab Ramos defender. I'm not. I just don't see why we're blaming Tab Ramos for issues that have nothing to do with him. We have no USMNT, U23, U19, U18, U17 coaches. No full time goalkeepeping coach at any youth level. No coherent strategy from the USSF president. A General Manager that was just installed. A bare bones scouting network. And somehow everything seems to be Tab Ramos' fault..............the one guy actually working hard to accomplish things. I guess its because he's the one guy there that's been in his role for a while, is actually visible, and is thus the only target available. As US U20 coach...............we're the defending CONCACAF U20 Champions (beating Mexico along the way). We won our group at the U20 World Cup, and lost in extra time in the quarterfinal. Our final standing was 7th at the 2015 U20 World Cup and 6th at the U17 U20 World Cup. Its the one team over the last several years that we can look to with some semblance of hope and pride as many of those kids are the ones advancing right now to the USMNT. And somehow Tab Ramos is the big problem! No, Tab Ramos is doing HIS job. The problem is he can't do 15 other jobs at the same time.
I do think people blame the staff from the last camp Efra was at. But only in a vacuum of not knowing what happened. Tab put himself in the conversation when he said he would like to recruit him but was persuaded not to by the Galaxy. So, it seems it is within Tab's portfolio of responsibility, he had the time to do it, and he has chosen not to pursue it against the club's wishes. I don't think any 15 year old is a can't miss. We can't pin everything on this kid and say his recruitment is job #1 for the whole USSF. I would just like to know someone is working on the coaching vacancies, they will be filled soon, and USSF is trying to improve in the way it interacts with these American-Mexican dual nationals. I'm much more interested in keeping Mendez and Llanez then blaming people for Gonzales or worrying about a kid that might have bolted because he was properly disciplined. But it is hard to give the benefit of the doubt to the U15 (?) staff when the history is guys getting sent home for speaking Spanish or the National Team coach and two of the biggest white stars of American soccer saying dual nationals shouldn't be on the team or the current Head Assistant alienating players at the U16 level, or the former Chief Scout blatantly lying about the Gonzales "affair".
The primary issue is that the USYNT coaching staffs have a problem retaining players that don't actually want to be there............................ We also talk a lot about the few players that have had a bad experience as opposed to the hundreds (thousands?) of players that have a good experience. It should also be noted that we as a US soccer community are total hypocrites when it comes the dual-nationals arena. We gleefully recruit players from other national team programs while whining endlessly when another nation poaches one of ours. Jonathan Gonzalez didn't make the 2017 U20 World Cup team. No. We convinced Gedion Zelalem of Arsenal to turn his back on Germany, and we picked him instead. Our current USMNT roster has how many dual-nationals that we've picked up? A bunch. We gleefully recruited Kenny Saief, who played for Israel on five different levels. We did convince Jesse Gonzalez to use his one time switch from Mexico to the US while we're outraged that Jonathan Gonzalez was poached by Mexico. Anyway, that's fine. We're fans. Fans being short for fanatics. Being hypocrites is OK.
I don't think hypocrites is correct at all. We gladly like everyone to play for us and expect USSF to go as hard for American-Mexican dual nationals as they do for Israeli and German and English ones. If you compare how they handled recent English, Polish, Croatian dual nationals with how they handled American-Mexican dual nationals, it is a tale of two cities really. European dual nationals are recruited, Mexican dual nationals are hazed. That is how I see it and how many see it and many more fear it is. So, it is not hypocritical to want the USSF to do better in this area. Defending how the USSF has handled these particular dual nationals seems naive. They have not handled the situation well and i think the clear thinkers, like Ramos, would tell you that. It is not "hypocritical" to want the USSF to learn from past mistakes and get better. It is critical sure, but constructive criticism.
When I used to coach at the youth competitive ranks, my team was half latino. There is a big difference between a Mexican-American of many generations back (Gen+) and first-generation Mexican-American (Gen1). In my experience, they don't seem to have much in common with each other beyond their last name. Gen1 kids prefer to speak Spanish and are a lot closer to the Mexican culture while Gen+ have assimilated the American culture and they either don't speak Spanish or their Spanish is broken. For some reason, the Gen+ kids think or portray themselves as being better than Gen1 kids. So it doesn't surprise me if we lost Efra to the green side.
I don't believe we "convinced" Jessie Gonzalez. He came back on his own will, everyone was surprised. I think it was because he is a Gen+ kid (see my previous post).
Yes, you are. And have been for a long time. But I am not arguing that Tab should be a good recruiter. I am simply stating that he is not a good recruiter. The USSF Youth structure is an insane mess right now. You had certified a-holes like Richie Williams and liars like Thomas Rongen responsible for player outreach. You have youth participation in the country declining because it is near impossible for parents to decipher how to participate in the system. And in the middle of the mess, the USSF froze coaching hires right when teams should be preparing for youth tournaments. The USSF Youth Federation, of which Tab Ramos is the Director, has completely screwed their end of things up. If not for MLS clubs picking up the dead weight, the talent pipeline would be hosed. So when it comes to whether Tab Ramos should be a recruiter, the answer is no. He, as I have mentioned, is bad at it. Perhaps he should instead focus on fixing the mess his organization is today. Or perhaps he should be fired as Youth Technical Director since he oversaw a lot of the mess in its creation. Then he can focus on being a U20 coach, and do his "one job" with hopefully some degree of competence.
Something to keep an eye on with a US prospect that actually wants to play for the US...................... Could today be @joshsargent day?First team striker Martin Harnik out due to injury; squad spot to be filled is TBD. Sargent trained w/ first team Thursday... we shall see.#USMNT https://t.co/kIpMsavrPd— Roderick MacNeil (@rodmacneil) October 5, 2018
This is an incorrect presentation of the issues at hand. Growing up in a dual national household with dual national cultures doesn't lead to a choice being as simple as I do or I do not want to play for the NT.
scoring a single goal even at 16 and even as a left back doesn't make you legit. people really need to understand a lone highlight clip doesn't make a player 'legit'. it takes time and performances over that time one moment doesn't do it. Its especially shocking coming form someone like you who talks about their experience and resume so much. I mean you know who the youngest scorer in mls is right? It is great he scored it really is but he is also a left back...meaning he is going to need to defend too so scoring a goal is wonderful but it hardly means a player is legit as a left back because he scored a goal. this is the same...andrew carleton pass...he is the legit 10 for the national team for the next ten years crowd that watches too many highlight clips.
I've taken a patient approach on Carleton. Don't really post much in his thread. But even I have seen those passes.....and I will tell you what, they are just ridiculous. Yeah its the second division, but he had a high-level assist in one of the few MLS games he played this year as well. Super-accurate assist to Josef Martinez.