2018-2019 UEFA Season Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, May 29, 2018.

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  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nevermind. Looks like Mazeika had Leverkusen-Monaco in 2016 and then Man United-Benfica on Matchday 4 last year. One per year is a weird pace, but his international assignments have definitely improved, so who knows--maybe it's time for him to make a leap.
     
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  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    I wonder how these decisions are evaluated by UEFA nowadays. Does Kovacs get bonus points for calling SFP "correctly", or does Marciniak get rewarded for keeping the game 11-11?
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People who seem to be in the know still insist that UEFA is instructing (through its RAP content) that tackles like this are definitely supposed to be red and that this is a missed KMI by Marciniak.

    Now, how such misses affect Elite referees on their assessment scores and what they mean for future assignments is anyone's guess. It's not like a rookie whistle is suddenly going to leap a World Cup referee because one gets a case of SFP right and the other doesn't. I think, unfortunately, you might have to see a horrific injury like the infamous Bosvelt-Irwin tackle before a very top referee is punished and the pendulum starts swinging back in the right direction.
     
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  5. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Luke Shaw got his leg broken on a terrible tackle several years ago on CL group match where Rizzoli was the referee (2015-2016 season I believe). Rizzoli didn't even call a foul.



    Rizzoli ended up doing the second leg of the Atletico Madrid vs. Barcelona match that same season where he proceeded to have another stinker. He then ended up doing the Euro 2016 semifinal

    Unless you repeatedly lose control of big games like Irmatov, top referees don't get punished for missing SFP.

    Many will disagree with me here, but Cakir gave a kind of controversial one and was effectively scrapped for a year and a half from top level CL matches and hasn't given a remotely controversial red card since on any big game.

    Howard Webb essentially made a career out of "managing" SFP red cards to yellow. In most of the big games he did he went with the "safer" decision and exercised "common sense" which inevitably led to the World Cup Final turning out the way he did.

    I thought the introduction of VAR would actually lead to more red cards for SFP, but it has done the exact opposite incredibly at least in MLS and in the World Cup.
     
  6. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Good example. Let's see how far Marciniak goes this season. I wouldn't bet against him getting a QF/SF if he doesn't cause further controversies between now and then.
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd be interested in seeing our debate about that Rizzoli/Shaw challenge. For some reason I don't think there was unanimity there. I believe I offered a defense of Rizzoli at the time.

    But as time goes on, the Cakir red on Nani does seem like it was a critical moment for him.

    It would take something massive and clear for the pendulum to swing. The tackle on Irwin is truly the type of thing I'm talking about (blatant SFP, no card given, broken leg, and a former WC Final referee benched and essentially having his career ended). Of course, once VAR comes into play in UCL, the possibility for something so blatant going unpunished essentially becomes zero. But as @RedStar91 points out, the possibility for borderline SFP calls being sanctioned also greatly decreases.
     
  8. Rocinante

    Rocinante Member

    Oct 9, 2018
    Take out the major injury, but leave the tackle, and I wonder how many people would have expected Rizzoli to call a penalty kick in a 0-0 match on what looks like at full speed to be a defender getting the ball with no studs. Yes, the tackle follows through the attacker and yes, it probably is a foul for lower levels. I just don't know at this level of play.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Its gonna be fun if VAR gets introduced for the knockout stage.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    VAR confirmed for UCL knockout stage, EL Final, and Nations League Final.
     
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  13. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    The question is do they scrap AARs this season? That probably won't happen this year, but you can't imagine they stick with AAR for the future or do they?

    I know Italy scrapped AARs after implementation of VAR, but they really have due to man power issues. I don't think UEFA will have that issue.
     
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  14. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was my first question. I haven't seen anything about it, yet. My assumption is worst case scenario they will use AAR's for the rest of this year and we'll never see them again.
     
  15. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    That will surely eliminate any controversies from these important matches ;)
     
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  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting article that needs to be translated from Dutch: https://www.omropfryslan.nl/nieuws/...-uitgesteld-voor-erwin-zeinstra-ek-2020-optie

    Essentially UEFA has already asked Kuipers to continue through EURO 2020, despite his age. Kuipers has tentatively said yes, but not if it means Makkelie can't go, too. Very interesting dynamic. One which becomes more interesting now since VAR is pretty much officially layered in.
     
  17. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club Brugge - Atletico: MASSA (ITA)
    Monaco - Dortmund: PAWSON (ENG)

    Barcelona - Tottenham: MAZIC (SRB)
    Inter - PSV: ZWAYER (GER)

    Liverpool - Napoli: SKOMINA (SVN)
    Red Star Belgrade - PSG: COLLUM (SCO)

    Galatasaray - Porto: KULBAKOV (BLR)
    Schalke - Lokomotiv Mostow: SIDIROPOULOS (GRE)

    Skomina for the massive match at Anfield, Mazic at the Camp Nou. Debut for Pawson.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hugh Dallas observing Skomina. This seems like a make or break test for the Final. If Rossetti follows last year’s practice (though he certainly doesn’t have to do so) the Final referee could be kept from knockout matches again. So giving Skomina the biggest match with the most important assessor seems like a signal.

    Still think Turpin and Hategan have played themselves into consideration. But if Skomina has the inside track, this is certainly the time to prove it.
     
  19. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Ajax - Bayern Munich: TURPIN (FRA)
    Benfica - AEK Athens: MADDEN (SCO)

    Shakhtar Donetsk - Lyon: KUIPERS (NED)
    Man City - Hoffenheim: EKBERG (SWE)

    Real Madrid - CSKA Moscow: SOARES DIAS (POR)
    Viktoria Plzen - Roma: TAYLOR (ENG)

    Young Boys - Juventus: STIELER (GER)
    Valencia - Man Utd: KABAKOV (BGR)

    Kuipers for the huge clash in Donetsk. Stieler with his first UCL group stage match of the year, and Kabakov makes his debut.
     
  20. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Selected Europa League appointments

    AEK Larkana - Leverkusen: LETEXIER (FRA)
    Cetic - Red Bull Salzburg: BUQUET (FRA)
    Spartak Trnava - Fenerbahce: SANCHEZ MARTINEZ (ESP)
    Olympiacos - Milan: BASTIEN (FRA)
    Rapid Wien - Rangers: MAZZOLENI (ITA)
    Besiktas - Malmo: BANTI (ITA)
    Genk - Sarpsborg: KOVACS (ROU)
    Sevilla - Krasnodar: STEFANSKI (POL)
    Rennes - Astana: GOZUBUYUK (NED)
    PAOK - BATE Borisov: WELZ (GER)
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's a fun clip from the Galatasary : Porto match. All sorts of instructional usages (though the inclusion of an AAR lowers its relevance some):

    https://streamable.com/45y57


    As a completely trivial aside, Alan Kelly's dad is the assessor on this match.
     
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  22. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    Good "but I got the ball" YC for Skomina against Liverpool early in the first half. Van Dijk made a nice slide to knock a ball away, but his momentum took his studs right into the attackers ankle.
    If he didn't contact the ball first, it would (should) have been a RC. Fair call on the YC though.
     
  23. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hopefully a trio is getting this right without the AAR or 4th, but that's a fun jigsaw type decision.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Nice?"

    1072586554802126849 is not a valid tweet id


    There's a strong argument for red even with the touch on the ball. But SFP isn't happening in the 13' minute of a Liverpool home game in the UCL unless he actually does break his leg.
     
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  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In some ways, the AAR complicates it all. There is an appeal to the AAR because of the handling on the goal line (which, honestly, I'm not sure he saw correctly given the goalkeeper seems to have blocked his vision). So the protests and initial discussion all take place around the AAR.

    But the play is actually stopped for the delayed offside decision, which was delayed appropriately (because the AR didn't know who got the decisive last touch). It's all very complicated, but I think without AARs the flag goes up late and the AR tells the CR it's offside if the touch came from the attacker but it's a red card/penalty if not. Truthfully, the one big question I have here is why the CR didn't go to the AR first or at least as soon as possible.
     
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