2018-2019 UEFA Season Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, May 29, 2018.

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  1. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm curious to see the logistics of this especially once the Europa League gets involved. Would you set up multiple VORs across Europe? Would you have it on site? How much money would it cost to make sure the stadium in Azerbaijan and Cyprus are ready to go with the video and communication feeds?
     
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  2. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    For what its worth, Serbia has decided that they will implement VAR starting next season I think....

    Pretty much all the minor and lesser leagues across Europe like Switzerland, Denmark, Serbia, Croatia, etc. will have VAR within the next year or two.

    There were matches in the Bosnian first division that AARs. Not every single one, but the major ones did. This is in a country that is practically broke for all intents and purposes. Yet they felt it was necessary to have AARs on their big matches.

    Europeans love their soccer and UEFA as a confederation is flowing with cash so I'm sure there will be some subsidy from UEFA to help out the smaller countries.

    Cases like San Marino, Cyprus, Gibraltar, Kosovo, etc might not, but you won't see referees from those countries or teams from those countries in the CL anyways.

    The reality is that leagues now pretty much have to have VAR or they risk losing credibility among fans, players, coaches and administrators. You see it in the EPL and in the CL right now. Any major decision that people think is wrong or incorrect, the coaches are bringing up VAR. See the Ronaldo red card. Alegri said that VAR would have "corrected it."

    Klopp blabbed on about VAR in a recent Liverpool match.

    Any remotely controversial or incorrect decision in the EPL is prefixed with the "well if there was only some system that can correct those type of errors..."

    It's practically peer pressure to have it, even if there are legitimate arguments for not getting it.

    It's not that leagues necessarily want to get it, they feel like they HAVE to get it or risk getting left behind.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MD2
    Hoffenheim : Manchester City - SKOMINA (SVN)
    Juventus : Young Boys - KARASEV (RUS)
    Bayern : Ajax - KRALOVEC (CZE)
    AEK Athens : Benfica - GRINFEELD (ISR)
    Olympique Lyon : Shaktar Donetsk - TREIMANIS (LVA)
    CSKA : Real Madrid - HATEGAN (ROU)
    Roma : Plzen - RACZCOWSKI (POL)
    Manchester United : Valencia - VINCIC (SVN)

    PSG : Red Star - SOARES DIAS (POR)
    Lokomotiv Moscow : Schalke - TAYLOR (ENG)
    Atletico Madrid : Brugge - KRUZLIAK (SVK)
    Dortmund : Monaco - KULBAKOU (BLR)
    Tottenham : Barcelona - ZWAYER (GER)
    PSV : Inter - MAZIC (SRB)
    Napoli : Liverpool - KASSAI (HUN)
    Porto : Galatasaray - OLIVER (ENG)

    The changing of the guard? Yeah, it's here...
     
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  4. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Referees from countries that we haven't seen in a while (and maybe ever) in the group stage of the CL.

    Bulgarian, Isreali and Latvian referees on some relatively important games that actually could have an impact on who will qualify out of the group.

    I wonder if there is anything to read into Skomina's countryman and not Skomina himself getting the more important Manchester match.
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think ever--certainly in the case of Latvia and I believe Israel as well (unless Yefet got a throwaway match at some point).

    The interesting thing here is the latter part of your sentence. Trialing these guys in MD 5 or 6 is something to expect. Throwing them into MD 2 is a shock. Rosetti is not approaching things like Collina did.

    Doubt it. I mean, to start, City has 0 points and is away so that is a big game in itself. Second, Skomina is a known commodity and will be around later. It's not so much a statement of Vincic over Skomina--that notion is absurd. But it is noteworthy that Vincic has a big match in the first place.
     
  6. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MassachusettsRef said "BLR," and to FIFA that means Belarus, not Bulgaria.
     
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  7. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Not loving Skomina's performance. Calling it very tight, and seems a little uneven in foul selection between MC and Hof.
     
  8. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Oops! Regardless, my point is probably even more valid since it is Belarus! You have to think the odds of a Bulgarian referee appearing in the CL proper, prior to this year at least, is greater than a Belorussian referee.

    The fact that we can't say for sure is a testament to just how difficult it is to reach the CL group stage as a referee from the lesser countries.

    Whatever people may think of Alan Kelly as a referee, the fact that he actually got to do CL group stage matches is quite remarkable (no matter how irrelevant they were).
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is one of the top reasons, when it was still just a rumor, I didn't think he truly had the motivation to come to the US. He had the opportunity to grow in UCL and an outside chance at EURO 2016, given the tournament expansion. He would have been in competition against guys like Hategan, Kralovec and Moen. Probably too tall of a task, but not impossible. That's all in the past, though.

    In the present, the auditions this week are really the first possible identification for the next Kassai, Skomina, Cakir, Mazic or Michel. One or more of these new names from obscure or lesser (footballing) countries could be household by the time 2022 rolls around.
     
  10. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    So why did Kelly come to the US and give up the chance to grow in the UCL?
     
  11. tomek75

    tomek75 Member+

    Aug 13, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. tomek75

    tomek75 Member+

    Aug 13, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, I have no idea. I do know that he originally came here for a desk job. Than the strike happened and he was put into field service. Was the desk job just a cover to get him here is anyone's guess.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's not go through this again here. I regret raising the point. If people have legitimate questions about his move here, there are several threads--some of the longest we've ever had--to search for and reference. If people want to discuss him again for whatever reason, the old threads are already available. It's better if we stay on topic here.
     
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  14. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Consensus seems to be that Skomina had a tough match. Missed penalty, almost failed to call a foul on a potential SFP (4th saved him and he went yellow) and just looked relatively slow overall.

    The penalty, where Skomina doesn't seem to accelerate when necessary, is here: https://streamable.com/cxwsv

    Not a good start to the season for the now perennial odds-on favorite for the UCL Final.
     
  16. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The Czech crew that called the Bayern - Ajax match did ok. There was one call misunderstood by the Mexican announcers who were calling for a penalty when Onana and Hummel's collided in the 2nd half but Hummels was offside when the ball was played in and the correct call was made
     
  17. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    It's interesting looking at what happens here. It looks to me that as the ball is going to the right side he is anticipating play setting up, and then when the ball is intercepted/deflected, he slows down, not realizing that the ball is actually going somewhere dangerous. And as he realizes he needs to sprint, he is caught behind two blue players--both slowing him down, and potentially interfering with a good view as he tried to navigate them (which we don't really see). But on the replay at about 28, when the contact takes place, it looks like he has navigated that to have an unobstructed view, but not at the distance he'd like, and not at a good angle to judge the GK.

    I always want to learn from these, but I'm not sure what I can learn from this. It seems to me it was a mistake in anticipation (or perhaps 2) that led to him having to try to catch up. I'm guessing that once he was behind, he was trying first to get an unobstructed view as a priority over closing the distance.
     
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  18. OldRetiredCoach

    Feb 22, 2003
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wondered about the AAR's view of the play. I don't know what kind of angle the AAR had - but I assume he would have had a good look.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He'd have one of the worst angles possible (though the absolute worst angle would go to AR1, who would be looking through the goalkeeper and completely unable to see any point of contact).

    This play made me think of the switch in 2011 when AARs moved from the diagonal side to the non-diagonal side. To be crystal clear, this move was based on feedback from the CRs, who felt the presence of the AAR on their diagonal and the accompanying instructions on movement negatively affected them too much. My understanding was that this sentiment was near unanimous. But the switch allows for situations like this, when the CR is caught trailing play too far and there's no good coverage on the left side of the penalty area if a big decision needs to be made.
     
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  20. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I think it's a penalty, but lately there seems to be a general trend among referees at the highest level to lean towards simulation on plays like there where the attacker is just trying to get a touch ahead of the goal keeper.

    Marrufo gave a simulation card on a play in an MLS game several weeks ago for something very similar.

    Regardless of what the correct decision is, Skomina HAS to make a decision here. You can't chicken out and give goal kick. It's either simulation or a penalty.

    I really can't stand when referees do this on plays like this. You are paid the big bucks to make a decision here.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, if you're not in position to make a decision and your AAR can't say one way or another, goal kick is probably the least worst option.

    With replay, we know this either has to be a foul or simulation. Without replay, there is the possibility that the goalkeeper got a fair touch and the player fell naturally. In the absence of any evidence to pick one of those three options, "no call" is the safest one, right? I don't think it's "chickening out." It's making the sensible choice and not taking the risk of compounding your positioning mistake.
     
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  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hategan with a double YC/RC to the keeper/captain of CSKA in the 90 + 4'. Seemingly double dissent but given the timing and scoreline, the motivation behind the initial dissent was surely to delay the restart, so take your pick. Still not something you typically see in the UCL (or too many other places, for that matter). Not sure how long video will stay given copyright issues:

     
  23. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I pretty much agree--you can't give the PK or simulation card if you can't tell.

    But --if the GK had the touch, then it would have been a CK, not a GK, as there is no subsequent contact back to the attacker.

    Perhaps his decision (from not great position) was that the kicker had overplayed the ball and could not have gotten to it, so any contact by the keeper was trifling, but there was enough contact not to call simulation?

    Would VAR award this as a PK? In MLS? In WC?
     
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  24. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I couldn't tell from the clip--what happened to set the GK off?

    I'm really curious what the GK said to get the second--I'm wondering if it was really OFFINABUS but the R went with dissent as it was still a send off. I wonder that because I'm surprised to see a second dissent card that quickly, especially with a teammate herding him away already--I would think he'd have to have said something pretty awful to pick up a second one that quickly at the professional level.
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good point on the corner kick issue.

    Yes.

    Maybe. Penalty decisions were a lot more liberal than RC decisions, obviously. But I still think the standard was higher.
     

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