2017 Winter transfer: Wir verpflichten den Einwanderer. Daumen gedrückt!

Alex C · Mar 30, 2017

eaglespark said: ↑

Now Keita is better than Dahoud, but this is an example of a propaganda statement from a club.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/11/tran...liverpool-are-no-longer-interested-in-signing
Dahoud probably decided to choose Dortmund back then, which is why there was a discussion of a January move and he started following a lot of Dortmund players.
Click to expand...

That article is laughable, and proof of why statistcs do not paint the complete picture. No one in their right mind would rank either Henderson or Can above Dahoud, and comparisons with Lallana are irrelevant, as he plays in a different position. At his age Dahoud is a player with a higher ceiling then any of Liverpool's squad, and they would have loved to have signed him. They lost out to Dortmund though, which must annoy them.

bvbSlash · Mar 30, 2017

I think they were annoyed at losing Gotze. Then Pulisic probably pissed them off. This Dahoud deal must drive them mental.

bvbSlash · Mar 30, 2017

Some insider claims we've or are close to signing a Schalke player. I call BS though. A few days ago Zorc said he'd consider buying one of theirs. Maybe Meyer or Sead.

podrinje · Mar 30, 2017

bvbSlash said: ↑

Some insider claims we've or are close to signing a Schalke player. I call BS though. A few days ago Zorc said he'd consider buying one of theirs. Maybe Meyer or Sead.
Click to expand...

Kolasinac would be a great fit as he is sturdy yet agile and quick enough to play as a left CB in a 3-5-2 as well as a traditional LB in a 4-man back line...I doubt he would sign with BVB as he's Schalke through and through

Lahmfan · Mar 30, 2017

and BVB continue to weakening the competition.. I wonder whats the excuse now.. I bet we are going to hear the "dahoud is not a big talent" excuse

Liquid1010 · Mar 30, 2017

Lahmfan said: ↑

and BVB continue to weakening the competition.. I wonder whats the excuse now.. I bet we are going to hear the "dahoud is not a big talent" excuse
Click to expand...

What are you doing?...........

Lahmfan · Mar 30, 2017

Liquid1010 said: ↑

What are you doing?...........
Click to expand...

Stating the facts

MatthausSammer · Mar 30, 2017

bvbSlash said: ↑

Some insider claims we've or are close to signing a Schalke player. I call BS though. A few days ago Zorc said he'd consider buying one of theirs. Maybe Meyer or Sead.
Click to expand...

If a Schalke player is in play, I want Goretzka. I don't care if we got Dahoud, if we have an opportunity to get Goretzka we need to take it and figure it out around them. Maybe a 4-3-3 with Dahoud, Goretzka, and Weigl. That sounds yummy.

eaglespark · Mar 30, 2017

MatthausSammer said: ↑

If a Schalke player is in play, I want Goretzka. I don't care if we got Dahoud, if we have an opportunity to get Goretzka we need to take it and figure it out around them. Maybe a 4-3-3 with Dahoud, Goretzka, and Weigl. That sounds yummy.
Click to expand...

No it sounds like a way to ruin a great team. Dahoud's qualities are best used in a 2 man midfield. Goretzka is a fantastic player and given the right discipline could become one of the best midfielders in the world, but the team is complete apart from a centre back. You can't buy all the best players in the world.

The two Schalke players I wouldn't mind would be Nastasic and Howedes.

eaglespark · Mar 30, 2017

podrinje said: ↑

Kolasinac would be a great fit as he is sturdy yet agile and quick enough to play as a left CB in a 3-5-2 as well as a traditional LB in a 4-man back line...I doubt he would sign with BVB as he's Schalke through and through
Click to expand...

What about Raphael?

Buying up all the talent just leads to disharmony in the dressing room, not enough minutes for the youngsters and players leaving. As things stand the squad is already too bloated.

Unless we play a 4-2-3-1 then at the least Mor (on loan) and Kagawa need to go.

MatthausSammer · Mar 30, 2017

eaglespark said: ↑

No it sounds like a way to ruin a great team. Dahoud's qualities are best used in a 2 man midfield. Goretzka is a fantastic player and given the right discipline could become one of the best midfielders in the world, but the team is complete apart from a centre back. You can't buy all the best players in the world.

The two Schalke players I wouldn't mind would be Nastasic and Howedes.
Click to expand...

I feel like we've done this song and dance before. I understand that you think that and there's some validity to thst, but I just think Goretzka's too good a piece to not acquire given the opportunity.

eaglespark · Mar 30, 2017

MatthausSammer said: ↑

I feel like we've done this song and dance before. I understand that you think that and there's some validity to thst, but I just think Goretzka's too good a piece to not acquire given the opportunity.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but I am a big fan of Goretzka, I have always pushed his talent ever since I saw him at Schalke. In fact given the choice, I would probably take him over Dahoud.

However, we have Dahoud now. We have Mor and Gotze. A 4-3-3 kills their development. If we are going to play 4-3-3 we might as well sell Gotze now. A 4-3-3 also does not suit Dahoud. Dahoud is brilliant at evading a press, getting the ball from deep and passing through the lines.

If Schalke don't get CL, which is not a given yet they have a shot at the Europa, trust our own players and get ready for the fight.

Bayern said Gotze was too good to just let go, look how that turned out? Manchester United said Veron was too good to just let go, look how that turned out? Madrid decided James Rodriguez was too good to just let go, look how that turned out?

Buy Goretzka and we destroy Gotze/Mor and we will never see the best out of Mor.

MatthausSammer · Mar 30, 2017

eaglespark said: ↑

Maybe, but I am a big fan of Goretzka, I have always pushed his talent ever since I saw him at Schalke. In fact given the choice, I would probably take him over Dahoud.

However, we have Dahoud now. We have Mor and Gotze. A 4-3-3 kills their development. If we are going to play 4-3-3 we might as well sell Gotze now. A 4-3-3 also does not suit Dahoud. Dahoud is brilliant at evading a press, getting the ball from deep and passing through the lines.

If Schalke don't get CL, which is not a given yet they have a shot at the Europa, trust our own players and get ready for the fight.

Bayern said Gotze was too good to just let go, look how that turned out? Manchester United said Veron was too good to just let go, look how that turned out? Madrid decided James Rodriguez was too good to just let go, look how that turned out?

Buy Goretzka and we destroy Gotze/Mor and we will never see the best out of Mor.
Click to expand...

I agree we'd have to let go of Götze/Mor if we got Goretzka and made the transition to a 4-3-3. I'd be okay with that; of course I'd love to see Mario rehab his career at Dortmund and see if Mor can develop a brain to go along with all that raw skill, but I think Goretzka offers more than Mor and Götze right now with additional upside as well. I disagree that Dahoud is strictly a guy for a double pivot; I think he'd do well with the additional positional verticality and freedom offered in a 4-3-3, and I think he and Goretzka would make a nice mix of skillsets as the double 8s ahead of Weigl, kind of in a mold similar to Kroos-Modric at Real Madrid.

Nightcrawler · Mar 30, 2017

I think Goretzka will move in Juventus or somewhere out of Germany.... but thats the some story of Dahoud lol

Bring Thillo Kehrer there

eaglespark · Mar 30, 2017

MatthausSammer said: ↑

I agree we'd have to let go of Götze/Mor if we got Goretzka and made the transition to a 4-3-3. I'd be okay with that; of course I'd love to see Mario rehab his career at Dortmund and see if Mor can develop a brain to go along with all that raw skill, but I think Goretzka offers more than Mor and Götze right now with additional upside as well. I disagree that Dahoud is strictly a guy for a double pivot; I think he'd do well with the additional positional verticality and freedom offered in a 4-3-3, and I think he and Goretzka would make a nice mix of skillsets as the double 8s ahead of Weigl, kind of in a mold similar to Kroos-Modric at Real Madrid.
Click to expand...

I don't think Kroos and Modric work that well. Kroos is just arguably the best midfielder in the world and Modric, despite declining is still one of the best. I actually think that is a great example of two brilliant players being shoehorned together. It still works, because they are brilliant players, but a more balanced midfield would be better. A Casmiero/Kroos/Vidal partnership would be far better.

Dahoud can cope in a 4-3-3, but that's not where you will get the best out of him. Dahoud is not as creative as say Keita or Goretzka, but is far, far better defensively.

We will agree to disagree. I really hate this idea of buying for the sake of buying. I hope no other signings are made except for at CB, unless Auba leaves.

MatthausSammer · Mar 30, 2017

eaglespark said: ↑

We will agree to disagree. I really hate this idea of buying for the sake of buying. I hope no other signings are made except for at CB, unless Auba leaves.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I think this summer definitive decisions have to be made about who to sell and who is here moving forward. There are too many players on this team, even for a manager who likes to rotate as much as Tuchel. Here's how I would break it down personally:

CORE PLAYERS MAY HAVE TO SELL:
Aubameyang

CORE PLAYERS
Reus
Pulisic
Dembele
Sokratis
Guerreiro
Burki
Dahoud

SEMI-CORE PLAYERS
Bartra
Passlack
Isak (he just got here)
Toprak (he just got here)
Castro
Durm
Schmelzer

PLAYERS YOU NEED TO DECIDE ON MOVING FORWARD
Merino (I'd keep)
Piszczek (I'd test the market)
Schürrle (I'd cut bait)
Kagawa (Depending on system going forward)
Götze (Depending on system going forward)
Mor (I'd keep maybe loan)
Bender (I'd cut bait)
Sahin (I'd cut bait)

DEFINITE GONERS:
Park
Rode
Ginter

If we're going to continue with the 3-4-3, and we sell all of Bender, Ginter, and Piszczek, we may need one or two additional CBs.

chewz · Mar 30, 2017

Piszczek just renewed his contract and was talking about retiring here, I don't see him leaving any time soon

bvbSlash · Mar 31, 2017

If we do get a Schalke player it won't be Goretzka. Some players are loyal and some aren't. I think Goretzka is the former. Also for some it doesn't make sense when they can get even more money elsewhere.

Anyway it's either Max or Sead if there is anything to it. And if we are plucking off players then we should be going after direct competition, Bayern and RB. Bayern have enough money to secure Zielinski and Rodriguez and make their midfield dynamite.

bvbSlash · Mar 31, 2017

chewz said: ↑

Piszczek just renewed his contract and was talking about retiring here, I don't see him leaving any time soon
Click to expand...

MS is wide off the mark with some of his claims.

LP will lose his starting spot as soon as he's no longer able to balance his defensive frailties with his attacking acumen.

Liquid1010 · Mar 31, 2017

bvbSlash said: ↑

MS is wide off the mark with some of his claims.

LP will lose his starting spot as soon as he's no longer able to balance his defensive frailties with his attacking acumen.
Click to expand...

LP is still a very good player with a lot of versatility. I would retain him, and let him retire with the club.

MatthausSammer · Mar 31, 2017

bvbSlash said: ↑

MS is wide off the mark with some of his claims.
Click to expand...

I'm open to criticism. Hit me with it.

bvbSlash said: ↑

LP will lose his starting spot as soon as he's no longer able to balance his defensive frailties with his attacking acumen.
Click to expand...

I think Piszczek has found a role as a RCB in the 3-4-3 which is helping his value to the team and prolonging his career. He's not a great RCB, but he's far from terrible either.

MatthausSammer · Mar 31, 2017

chewz said: ↑

Piszczek just renewed his contract and was talking about retiring here, I don't see him leaving any time soon
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

bvbSlash · Mar 31, 2017

Liquid1010 said: ↑

LP is still a very good player with a lot of versatility. I would retain him, and let him retire with the club.
Click to expand...

I'm not opposed to it. There was an article on goal.de about how he's incredibly good offensively.

But our club sucks at letting players retire. They kept Kehl on until he was borderline useless. Dede was humiliating made to play for the second team and wasn't even allowed to retire. Weidenfeller....Well the less said the better.

bvbSlash · Mar 31, 2017

MatthausSammer said: ↑

Fair enough. I think this summer definitive decisions have to be made about who to sell and who is here moving forward. There are too many players on this team, even for a manager who likes to rotate as much as Tuchel. Here's how I would break it down personally:

CORE PLAYERS MAY HAVE TO SELL:
Aubameyang

CORE PLAYERS
Reus
Pulisic
Dembele
Sokratis
Guerreiro
Burki
Dahoud

SEMI-CORE PLAYERS
Bartra
Passlack
Isak (he just got here)
Toprak (he just got here)
Castro
Durm
Schmelzer

PLAYERS YOU NEED TO DECIDE ON MOVING FORWARD
Merino (I'd keep)
Piszczek (I'd test the market)
Schürrle (I'd cut bait)
Kagawa (Depending on system going forward)
Götze (Depending on system going forward)
Mor (I'd keep maybe loan)
Bender (I'd cut bait)
Sahin (I'd cut bait)

DEFINITE GONERS:
Park
Rode
Ginter

If we're going to continue with the 3-4-3, and we sell all of Bender, Ginter, and Piszczek, we may need one or two additional CBs.
Click to expand...

A core player is almost always one who is talented, isn't often injured and some semblance of loyalty.

Why?
With just loyalty have players like Schmelzer and Weidenfeller who are loyal but have zero talent and negate the need to be replaced. Also they prevent youngsters from developing. Likely the worst possible kind.

With just durability you have players like Castro who have zero talent, hog up enormous min in important matches and negated the urgency to purchase Dahoud.

With just talent you have guys like Miki who are little petals and leave after 1 season.

So you go figure which players check 3 out of 3. Apart from Sokratis, Burki, Weigl, PEA and Raphael, I don't see anybody. Reus, Götze need to overcome their issues. Demeble has pledged his loyalty for Barcelona. I do have high hopes for Pulisic, Bartra, Dahoud.

I don't see Toprak as semicore. We don't need him now, we won't need him next year either. Schmelzer, Durm, Castro all need to go. We can't aim to be a top club and have a bunch of below average players hogging up large min.

astrophyz · Mar 31, 2017

must reward loyalty! a good coach will convince the loyal and not so talented player that his role will be of leadership now, and his minutes will decrease. human skills.

i still worry about our CB positions. and i am so worried that we discover that sokratis wants to leave (a la Mikhi) in the summer. So unless we get a major talent at CB, we can't let go of Ginter and Pizceck, in addition to the loyalty argument.