Review: 2017 U-20 World Cup: Tournament Takeaways

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by ussoccer97531, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    Tom Collingsworth and headerdunce repped this.
  2. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
  3. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    All the more reason for teams to wait for now...
     
  4. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not really
     
  5. Giggsy1986

    Giggsy1986 Member+

    Jan 27, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The fact that we are still labeling our kids Hispanic vs. Non-Hispanic is the real problem. Ramos states that he was looking for players comfortable on the ball is also laughable....His roster selection does not reflect his statements.

    What he says and what he does lack correlation. I am assuming this has to do with what his gut says and what he is being told he should be doing.

    Either way it's time to move on from Tab.
     
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  6. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Tab's results have been good; but I agree his process has not. The USSF should move on, just because 4 years seems to be a good stint for national team coaches. The U20 coach at least doesn't get the choice to "stick with his guys" since they age out. But it has to be attractive to find players to fit to the previous system than to take a fresh look at the player pool and fit a system to what is there.

    If any three of Tyler Adams, Josh Sargent, CCV, Lennon, DLT and EPB are starting in Qatar, Ramos did his real job.
     
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  7. Giggsy1986

    Giggsy1986 Member+

    Jan 27, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC

    Qatar?

    That makes no sense at all. Ramos has almost zero impact on their individual development.

    His job is to put the best product on the field and win tournaments not develop kids for the national team...
     
  8. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Ramos is the YNT Technical Director I believe. DAs probably fall under his umbrella.
     
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  9. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd like to see one of the great assistant directors/coaches at the top academies take over. Every Cycle another one from another academy does it. Then many new ideas go back and forth from the academies to the federation and back. Don't really see why they keep picking ex national team guys other than favoritism.
     
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  10. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Yeah, things are not set up in a way that this is possible. First, any guy from an academy will pick their own players. Second, the DAs are graded by how many NTers and YNTers they produce. So the guy doing the selecting for a YNT is basically grading the DAs.
     
  11. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Actually, his job is to develop players for the Senior team. Winning is only important in that it is good for development of the players. Think of it this way:

    1. Four players on the 2017 U20 WC team start in Qatar but team loses in quarterfinals.

    2. No players make Qatar roster but they lose in finals.

    Which do you choose? The USSF would take 1 every time. Winning the senior WC is the only goal. Wining a U20 WC had shown zero correlation to WC results. You can argue he is not developing players, but not that he's not supposed to.
     
  12. Giggsy1986

    Giggsy1986 Member+

    Jan 27, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC

    You're missing my point, He has almost zero influence on their actual development.

    1.) The person spending time with the between the ages 8-14 has the most impact on their development.

    2.) Between 16-18 which academy are they at? ex. Dallas and LA Galaxy vs. Minnesota United or Colorado Rapids Huge difference. Even more of a difference Ajax vs. Dallas or LA Galaxy HUGE difference.

    3.) You get called into US camps about once every 6 months Ramos will have an absolute minimal affect on your individual ability his job is to fit you into a system that helps the U-20's win games.

    On this point nothing I have seen from him shows any progressive tactics or the focus on developing elite technical and tactical players.

    Which shows me even more that he is not a good coach to begin with. Javier Perez is the best youth coach we have had in the last 10 years.
     
  13. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    What exactly Tab did for those players?
     
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  14. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    Doesn't deviate from the script one bit, does he?
     
  15. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    If it keeps him happily employed for ages, why would he?
     
  16. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Then change the ways things are set up... some simple suggestions:

    1). Move to team selection by committee with representation from all regions of the country (maybe 8???)
    2). Make the committee accountable and give credit to Teams in regions for identifying the right players from their region (i.e. So the guy from the Galaxy who is on the committee is incentivized to get the "right" kids from the region and not just his teams players) or dinged for pushing guys who aren't up to the level.

    I actually like this as it puts a universal view on talent identification. It will starts to show who is good and who is not so good at identifying talent and get fairer representation out to all the kids who aren't in the bigger areas while also pushing for half the kids to be from LA, Dallas, Ny, etc if there is something special going on.
     
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  17. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I'd agree that development isn't the right word, but identification is the focus of YNT coaches. Being part of these teams provides experience and exposure that most don't get. The goal should be to identify who those opportunities should go to that best helps US soccer.

    Your points about development make the question about attributes the coach should have a tough one. I don't think results matter much, but can see the value of success in these tournaments could bring to the players down the road and a little hype never hurts. I Reid really like the idea floated up thread that involves rotating coaches and creating a network of MLS youth coaches that is focused on identifying talent and innovating. It could pay big dividends down the road.
     
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  18. chrome_vapors

    chrome_vapors Member+

    Oct 15, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's actually not how DA's are graded. That's factually incorrect.
     
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  19. headerdunce

    headerdunce Member

    Dec 19, 2005
    Notwithstanding Gardner's predictable article, I'm surprised a number of you have a low opinion of this year's U20s. I'll admit to not watching all of the games, but what I saw was impressive enough for me to conclude that this is a step up from the last several cycles. Overall more comfortable on the ball, better movement with and without the ball, good team defending, mostly good athletes and good mental composure/fortitude. Add the missing players who could have started or competed for starting positions, and you have a very strong group.

    Having said all that, none of us (even the one most in the know, @bshredder) can be certain regarding which, if any, of these guys will excel at the senior level. But I'm willing to say the future looks bright.
     
  20. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    *shrug* that's what I was told by the DA coach when he talked to the parents. Please illuminate us if it is different.
     
  21. Giggsy1986

    Giggsy1986 Member+

    Jan 27, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    After watching Jackson Yueill tonight, Tab is a bigger idiot than I thought.
     
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  22. chrome_vapors

    chrome_vapors Member+

    Oct 15, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He really shouldn't be deliberately spreading misinformation like that to parents.

    There is an ongoing formal evaluation process where USSF grades the club across a couple different areas throughout the season culminating in a technical report delivered at the end of the year.

    A club's professional player development history and YNT development history are sub-sections within that report, but they are not factored into the formal evaluation grade.

    You get a 0 - 5 star grade on style of play, quality of the training, facilities, $ amount of player expenses paid by the club, and club administration. The maximum eval grade is a perfect 25/25 stars.

    You also get a grade for sportsmanship and professionalism but it's not included as a part of your aggregate evaluation score.

    I'm not directly involved anymore and haven't been a for a couple of years so things could have changed in some areas but evaluating clubs based on YNT caps doesn't make sense.

    Majority of clubs will never develop a YNT player and it doesn't really tell you anything about how a club develops talent anyway.
     
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  23. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    #148 deejay, Jun 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
    Ok thanks. It was the Chargers. He said it in such a way as to segue in to the fact that this DA has had a few capped players pass through and that they are rather highly ranked. I'm also assuming that he meant YNT because he used IIRC the phrase "National Teams". I assumed that because Chargers has had a few YNTs but not really full caps.
     
  24. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    The Las Cruces (Go Aggies!) paper profiles Herrera, with some interesting detail on how he got here and where he might be going. Spoiler: You might want to post good things about him if you plan on speeding through New Mexico:

    Herrera's father, Diego, moved to the United States from Guatemala. He moved to Las Cruces in 1993 and became a U.S. citizen in 2000. He turned in his soccer boots and became a New Mexico state police officer in 2000, where he served for 13 years before spending the last two years as a deputy with the Doña Ana County Sheriff's Department.

    Herrera's mother, Donni, is a New Mexico State police detective.​

    http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/spo...gh-after-u-20-world-cup-experience/401874001/
     
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  25. gvsu

    gvsu Member

    Oct 10, 2006
    Eryk Williamson is heading to Sweden next week for a trial with Hammarby (Charlie Davies' old club) according to reports in Swedish media. http://www.expressen.se/sport/fotboll/allsvenskan/hammarby-ar-pa-vag-att-varva-u21-landslagsman/
     

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