News: 2017 Raccoon Rodeo - the in season discussion thread

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by morrissey, Mar 1, 2017.

  1. DecadeOfDCU26

    DecadeOfDCU26 Member+

    May 2, 2007
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. Eastern Bear

    Eastern Bear Member+

    Feb 27, 1999
    Great Falls, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    It's bad enough that we won't spend any money, but the foolish/shortsighted signing of Sarvas for that kind of scratch...

    I also thought we resigned Mullins to a bigger deal.

    Depressing to see that list.
     
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  3. DecadeOfDCU26

    DecadeOfDCU26 Member+

    May 2, 2007
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought we had too.

    Went back to 2016 data, he was at $96,250/$116,250

    Now he is up to $114,125/$144,125

    So he did get a bump, but yea I assumed it was over $200k.

    Also Harkes is at $123k guaranteed for anyone not wanting to dig through - slightly more than Jeffrey.
     
  4. kirchhausen

    kirchhausen Member+

    Apr 17, 2004
    Ashburn, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    mls_2017.PNG
    Once again DC is last in the league in spending. Also, they seem to have no cohesive strategy about how we spend our money.

    DC is first in the league in spending on hybrid position players, but last in Midfield (by a lot), second to last in Forward (way below average in that position). They are slightly above average on D (they spend 9th most) and they spend the 5th most on GK.

    I think this says volumes about their strategy. Screw attractive soccer, lets get a bunch of players who we can stick in a lot of different positions (but none of them exceedingly well). Lets bunker down and grind.

    When are they going to spend that Audi money?
     
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  5. NicktheGreek

    NicktheGreek Member+

    Feb 15, 2001
    Well that should be enough to convince everyone to run down and open an account and let the manager open 9 or 10 more for you after you leave
     
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  6. yabo

    yabo Member+

    Jun 1, 2000
    Poolesville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know anything about Ben, except my experience watching him play. Hard to read his managerial aptitudes, since we don't know if his players are executing what he's instructed them to do. But my sense is that he's a high character guy, who plays the game simply. This discussion of tactical sophistication that begins in practice was interesting. The coaching adherents have had success. Not sure that you can't win playing simply, but would love to see a DCU team that played with greater tactical urgency. Here's a quote from the article:

    ...there should not be specific physical, tactical or technical training sessions, no separate fitness coaches or artificial skills exercises, such as the rondo, the one-touch passing game that forms the basis of Pep Guardiola’s approach. Because every aspect of the game is interconnected, Frade argues, they must be treated as such.

    That is not periodization’s only calling card. Everything is related to possible in-game scenarios: no running to build up general stamina; only running to build up the exact sort of stamina that might be required at given moments. No practicing passing; only practicing what pass is needed and when.

    Training is never gentle, with all sessions carried out as fast and as hard as the number of players on the field allows. And it is not scripted. Players are not told what to do; they are given a problem and encouraged to solve it for themselves. “What matters is the process,” Frade said. “They have to work out the answers.”
     
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  7. GumbyG

    GumbyG Member+

    DC United
    Mar 22, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where does the $600K number for pure forwards come from? Looking at Mullins,Kamara and Ortiz, we're at $324,121. Must be they're counting Rolfe as a pure forward. :cautious:

    On the other hand, we're playing a 4141 / 433, so it's accurate to classify two of those positions as hybrids. If you dig into the numbers, that hybrid number has to include Acosta and Vincent (pure mids - Sarvas,DeLeon,Buescher and Harkes, as far as I can tell from looking at the possible salary combinations). Thats $565K of players who really don't play a hybrid mid-forward role at all. The remaining $800K represents proportional spending for the outside mid/forward wings.
     
  8. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    The good news about being at the bottom is that there's nowhere to go but up, right?

    For the cheapest team in MLS, it's an absolute killer to see the Sarvas salary. And Rolfe. This is why I'm so weary of the excessive veteran strategy. They're not as cheap and not as reliable over the long haul.

    Looking at that list the positives are players like Mullins, Jeffrey, Tissot, Neagle, Vincent and Opare. In addition to our drafts and homegrown signings like Kemp, Odoi Atsem, Harkes, Durkin and Büscher. Even Ortiz and Kamara aren't bad at that price as far as our limited international scouting is concerned.

    I've always said that if this team insists on being budget, you need to go younger. Much more value there. You should never carry more than 3-4 veterans. Out of our veteran group of Boswell, Franklin, Le Toux, Nyarko, Rolfe, Sam and Sarvas, only about half should be on the team. I think we all know the biggest errors on that list. Sarvas of course. Rolfe should never have gotten a multi year deal at that age. And Franklin should have just been dropped since we drafted a young right back. Franklin is just clogging up the pipeline for Odoi Atsem and Robinson.

    You clean up some of that veteran clutter at the top end of the salary scale, and you open up some opportunities for your younger players. With that $800K+ saved, you can add one more game changing DP to complement Acosta. In the end you get a smaller veteran core of team leaders (Boswell, Sam and Le Toux), a larger core of younger up and coming players, but you get one more attacking game changer.
     
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  9. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    On the bright side these numbers do flatter Olsen's coaching. He is very well suited for running a cheap team. You put him in charge of Seattle or Galaxy and my guess is that he would fail.

    But he does a good job of keeping this roster from getting too demoralized. Our players never look as happy as some other players in the bigger clubs, but they still show up to work every day. To keep this group anywhere near the race for that 6th playoff spot is an overachievement of sorts.
     
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  10. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    WUSA is using a racoon ad on the back of buses for their 11pm news.
     
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  11. John L

    John L Member+

    Sep 20, 2003
    Alexandria, VA
    If Rolfe wasn't injured, he'd be starter or a constant Sub -
     
  12. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    That's racist ... ;)
     
  13. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Agreed. But this is why you really need to be cautious about multi year contracts to players over 30. You should limit that to only the fittest and the most talented players that we literally can't live without. And ideally for positions where they don't run as much and have more longevity like center back and target striker. Otherwise it's better to have 1 year contracts and re evaluate from one season to the next.

    I prefer the Red Bull approach. I suspect they're using some moneyball formula based on age, salary and performance. Something similar to what has brought them success in Austria and Germany. A sale of a player is not viewed as a loss, but an opportunity to reinvest and be even better in the future. There is always an eye to what is coming up next in the academy and youth scouting.

    On the surface you think how could they drop Sam and McCarty who were such big contributors? My guess is that they just didn't meet the formula requirements anymore. And now you see players like Adams and Muyl coming through and you can see that they're better positioned to be competitive now and in the future. And it's not like they're that far ahead of us in total budget spending.
     
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  14. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
  15. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    You have a point, but Rolfe got a random concussion, which is not age-related. And really good players are going to want more than a one year contract.
     
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  16. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    That is a very good point. We are talking about individuals and not production integers. Moving McCarty may have made "formula sense", but it has a lockerroom cost and other players around the league try to avoid RBNY if such continues. You might say giving Rolfe a multi-year was a mistake, but he had produced consistently while here and by giving such contracts you say continuity, effort and a mutual give and take are valued here. Same goes for giving Boswell the extension as well. I would have a hard time following a team that treated players like yesterday's pizza according to some formula. YMMV.
     
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  17. kirchhausen

    kirchhausen Member+

    Apr 17, 2004
    Ashburn, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I just went by how MLS categorized the players. They count Rolfe as a forward. Here is a screenshot of all United Players with their position included.

    upload_2017-4-27_14-50-52.png upload_2017-4-27_14-50-52.png
     
  18. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    A common misconception. While the condition itself is not age related, the odds of exposure are. It's usually not the first or even the 2nd concussion that ends your career. It's the 5th or 6th. Which means that it's more likely to catch up to players who have been around for awhile. The more you've played the more likely that you've built up a concussion history. It's not that common to see careers end before 25 for concussions.

    Again, not singling Rolfe out necessarily. I just feel like we carry an above average burden of season ending injuries in our club. Which is not a good thing for trying to compete on such a small budget. Rolfe is just the latest example. But before that we had Korb, EJ, Pontius, Parke, De Ro, Boskovic ... And that's just season ending injuries. How many other aging players did we bring in just to get maybe one good season out of them and gradually watch them decline into retirement. Wolff, Russell, Thorrington, Saragosa, Arnaud, Saborio ...

    Obviously these problems aren't all age related. There's other things going on there. I'm not saying that I want DC to treat veterans like crap. I just prefer that we create our own veterans. I'd love to see Birnbaum and Hamid play here until they're 35. I'm just weary of going out of our way to stockpile other teams' veterans. They're generally not that cheap. They're less likely to be durable for an entire 34 game season. Less likely to ever make the club a profit in the future. And less likely to be available for long term planning, which means you have to go back to the drawing board every offseason.
     
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  19. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rolfe's concussion was totally unrelated to his age. Given what he brought to the team a multiyear contract was totally reasonable. Young people get concussions, too (cf. Esky, Gros). Were Rolfe healthy I think he would start in the midfield over Nyarko and probably Harkes, or play as a withdrawn striker.
     
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  20. DecadeOfDCU26

    DecadeOfDCU26 Member+

    May 2, 2007
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think Rolfe was ever a center mid, Maybe he could play in the Acosta spot but def not further back. Harkes would be unrelated to Rolfe's playing time.
     
  21. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
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  22. fairfax4dc

    fairfax4dc Member+

    Dec 5, 2008
    Fairfax, Va
    This conversation is way too knowledgeable, intelligent and civil for Big Soccer.
     
  23. griffin1108

    griffin1108 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 5, 2003
    Virginia
    Goff reports DCU signed Korb after his rehab. Good for him and glad he could make his way back. Must be a tough bastard -- Capitals could use a few like him.
     
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  24. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Kitchen is sitting on the bench at Hearts. I don't think he would be the answer but I guess some would. DCU doesn't have any MLS rights on him, didn't he leave on a free?
     
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  25. asitis

    asitis Member+

    Mar 30, 2005
    Charlottesville
    What in the world happened? Didn't he captain Hearts last year?

    asitis
     

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