2017 Hot Seat

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by StevenLa, Mar 10, 2017.

  1. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

    May 5, 2007
    Checking in on the forum to find people are still engaging this troll! A guy with OCD, an aversion to facts, and a 24/7 keyboard compulsion? Sound familiar?

    Driscoll has the perfect amount of arrogance for the Ivy League but he's young enough to still let his ego tell him he can 'do better'. I'd be shocked if he thinks he'll spend the rest of his career at Princeton. Maybe there's a better job than UConn he'd prefer but I'm sure his resume is in.
     
  2. chch

    chch Member

    Aug 31, 2014
    as holmes and I have said, it's not an accident Pton beat wake forest, UNC, and NC state last year. Education is the endpoint in women's US soccer. There are probably only a few jobs better than harvard or princeton in women's soccer (UCLA, Stanford, Cal, UVA, UNC, Duke). Even taking syracuse over Pton is not a good call from a coaches or players perspective. Women's soccer is not men's there's realistically no money to be made in NWSL in the next 5-10 years. Test scores for recruited athletes are well below the average student so the coaches in affluent sports aren't even really limited - the kids just keep paying for test prep til they hit the score they need.
     
  3. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member

    May 5, 2007
    What? The Ivy League barely cares about sports generally much less sports like women's soccer. The best an Ivy League school can do is gather the best of the Ivy-bound kids in any particular sport/recruiting year and do what Princeton just did. This year is about as good as its going to get competitively for Princeton in the NCAA Tournament and for sure Sean realizes that. (They don't even allow for a full schedule and preseason.)
    P5s (and some 2nd tier conferences) pay coaches in sports like soccer 2x or 3x what the Ivy's will pay. Good 6-figure numbers. There are always going to be Ivy-families who wouldn't touch a state-school education, but that IS where most of the money is and is where most championship teams will come from. Stanford is kind of a unique hybrid with p5 money and Ivy reputation with great location so playing it very smart right now and clearly a great place to be.

    So, if an Ivy coach really wants to crank up their quality of life and retirement savings, and/or really wants to compete for nattys, they need to go p5. Many examples in almost every sport including soccer (recently Leone, Harvard to UMD). Sean should probably get while the gettin is good for him but maybe bad timing for him with Pitt/UConn the 'best' openings right now.
     
  4. Enzo the Prince

    Sep 9, 2007
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    I agree they are great jobs, but there's at least 20 that pay better - a lot better. And that matters to people with families etc.
     
  5. oneofnine

    oneofnine Member

    Nov 21, 2011
    don't disagree with most points made with regard to Princeton and P5 programs. This principle could be applied to many positions in D1. If you take another job, it is usually for a change of level or a change of lifestyle - sometimes both (don't make the mistake however that coaching at a P5 program is necessarily a better lifestyle). The problem is many coaches pursue a job primarily due to the change of level - whether it be for career advancement, ego , competition or support structure. The salary is usually better, but certainly not a transformational salary jump (like D1 bball or fball). And with the change in level, comes a consistently higher level of competition within a specific conference - therefore margin of error is smaller. Usually they take over for a coach that hasn't performed well - Syracuse could be an example. Problem is in 4-5 years they may be wishing they had stayed where they were. They may find that perhaps the previous coach wasn't such a moron - but in a very tough situation (I'm NOT referencing Syracuse). And it isn't whether you can win for a year or two, but whether you can do it consistently. This is all thrown to the wind however, because the draw of the unknown is too great. And the same qualities that make them coaches (competitiveness, embracing a challenge, self-belief, ego, etc.) will motivate them to forego the sure thing for the possible thing.
     
    MAGA DTS! and Eddie K repped this.
  6. chch

    chch Member

    Aug 31, 2014

    travel, weekday games, and total games are reduced on purpose for the students in Ivy league; yeah the pay may be lower but so is the work load. Also, I would suggest that Pton and harvard can recruit better players than syracuse. so you are looking at slightly more pay to lose to UNC, duke, UVA and notre dame in perpetuity. to repeat Princeton beat wake forest, nc state (twice), and UNC. therefore the talent is there. Harvard beat boston college and barely lost to syracuse.
     
  7. theguru

    theguru Member

    May 7, 2008
    W&M announcement coming tomorrow.
    UMass has 3 very good asst's on campus this week 2 P5. 1AAC.
    UConn should be naming MR as the new head coach soon
    For a small school Fairfield seems to have a few P5 applicants
    Richmond is bringing in a bunch of people 4 at least
    JMU should hand it off to asst
    Towson trying hard to get JMU asst
     
  8. Holmes12

    Holmes12 Member

    May 15, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    #858 Holmes12, Dec 12, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
    Its not like Driscoll turned Princeton into a winner, the school and location was and always will get top pay to plays. Not unlike lacrosse. Look at Leone, faced this decision, but even bigger leap than this conjectured piddly UConn...to the Big Ten. He bought his own hype, I guess, Now, overwhelmed, out of his element, can't sell (didn't have to at Harvard). He really screwed up. His wife had the Northeastern gig she gave up. To think Driscoll will leave his lair, lighter workload (great points about games and travel, chch) and expectations for anything less than southerly/coastal or Cali P5, if that, is ludicrous.

    I'm not convinced his Princeton salary sucks either. Evenso, his security is far higher. Look at the haul he gets at any Ivy clinic/camp he stages in the heart of all that wonderful, highly concentrated eastern seaboard soccer money! What, four hour ID camp, that'll be $200 per girl. And they will come, Ray, they will most definitely come. All those brokers, all those doctors...all along the I-95 corridor...cheques in hand...
     
  9. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know anything about Wheddon other than that over the last 11 years, Syracuse's RPI has improved at the average rate of 0.0044 per year. He's been there for the last 10. That's not a stunning rate of improvement, but it's decent. If it continues, Syracuse ultimately will pass a threshold at which it will become a contender. Of course, the rate of improvement can't last forever, so at some point Syracuse will level out. I think it's too early to say it's reached that point, although there is a possibility it has. So, if I were an AD I'd give him two or three more years to see if the program has stabilized or will continue to improve.
     
  10. LilKicker

    LilKicker Member

    Dec 9, 2014
    Club:
    Galatasaray SK
    It is a grave mistake to think that working at an Ivy means less work. Many have tried, few have succeeded.
     
  11. Enzo the Prince

    Sep 9, 2007
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Or possibly a lot more pay, maybe twice as much, in some cases.

    Princeton beat NC State once; second game was a tie, decided in penalties. Agree tho, obviously, that the talent is there, and it's a very good job.
     
  12. PoetryInMotion

    COYS
    Feb 7, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Michael Thomas of Cal State Fullerton to South Dakota
     
  13. Collegewhispers

    Oct 27, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew

    I’m guessing that he was probably the best candidate in a pool that wouldn’t attract much but man still not a good hire. Mike was ran out of Buffalo with all the drama between him and the kids on the team and the poor environment.

    Since we are apparently have interviews and announcements coming up imminently according to other posters who are the people in the running at UConn and Pitt?

    CP I love the stuff you do but flat out Syracuse is a bad program under Wheddon. I know I have been a little harsh on the guy and perhaps that’s because of a little of the inside information I’ve received over the years, but how the guy still has his job shows that admins don’t care they have a terrible coach in charge.
     
  14. Holmes12

    Holmes12 Member

    May 15, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    I'm thinking Lindsey will be announced at W&M. Last tweet was VCU Christmas Party on Dec 3. Dark since. Not even the typical school or otherwise rah-rah retweets. Maybe some pangs of guilt (will quickly dissipate, as is natural).
     
  15. TheBigDawg

    TheBigDawg New Member

    Dec 13, 2017
    Actually Driscoll did build Princeton into what it is now. Have to give credit where credit is due. Harvard was the long time power of the conference, before Driscoll arrived at Princeton three years ago. 2 Ivy titles, 2 NCAA berths including an Elite 8 appearance later, I certainly understand why he has been garnering interest. Sure, Princeton is a terrific place, but it had not had success in a long time before he arrived so he must be doing something right. It’s one thing for a school to have potential. It’s another to actually reach it.
     
  16. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Your question is confusing. I'm not quite sure what you're asking. As a parent of an Ivy athlete, I became well-versed with the AI and the intricacies within it. When my kid was looking, we used the website Tier One Athletics. It was very helpful. Here is the website: http://www.tier1athletics.org/ If you have a kid that is considering an Ivy, there is a lot of good info at that site. Also, here is a link to the 2016 AI: https://tinyurl.com/y7jp3qda If you're concerned about the additional costs of testing, etc, here is a good resource that is helpful: https://www.highincomeparents.com/academic-index/

    The part of your question asking about one sport trading points from basketball to other sports is also confusing. There is no "monkey business" or sleight of hand going on at the Ivies. Below is something to consider that may, or may not, address your question. This is from the Essential Guide to Ivy League Athletic Recruiting.

    “By mutual agreement, the minimum Academic Index to be admitted as an athlete in the Ivy League is 176. This was revised in 2012. The AI floor used to be 171. It’s very important that you realize this number is not a standard that will make you eligible to be admitted into an Ivy League school. Consider this number a minimum. In reality, a much higher AI is generally required of most athletes. To make it even more confusing, each school within the Ivy League has a different AI requirement. The rule states that the mean AI of all athletes on campus must fall within one standard deviation of the mean AI of the whole student body. If, for example, the average student on the Princeton campus has a higher Academic Index than the average Penn student, the Princeton athletic recruits must also meet a higher standard.”

    In many cases it is harder to coach at an Ivy. The athlete must first be qualified academically. A coach will not waste any time looking at kids that will not qualify.
     
  17. chch

    chch Member

    Aug 31, 2014
    I'm familiar with that site. It's not as simple as you say since football for example has "banding" and clearly allows students in the lowest academic band that are not one standard deviation. My question - based on everything I've read - is the academic index number (which is higher as you said for say harvard vs brown) is an average across the entire athletic department (as I understand it). So if Harvard basketball - that is clearly on an up swing and recruiting players of better caliber allowed to recruit players that as an average for the team is lower than say the average of the golf team. I believe I read online that the harvard's men's golf team requires "scores above 33", which is much higher than what's needed in women's soccer in many if not all Ivies. I have also read that historically some schools have preferences for some sports to excel at. (think crew or ice hockey). So the unstated inference is that average team test scores may vary by sport at the same ivy league school. here's the source for harvard's golf team http://www.gocrimson.com/sports/mgolf/faq
     
  18. Holmes12

    Holmes12 Member

    May 15, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    #868 Holmes12, Dec 13, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
    Dawg, from the hiring article...

    "Driscoll takes over a Princeton program that has 10 NCAA tournament appearances and seven Ivy League championships to its credit, taking part in eight of the last 14 NCAA draws and winning the Ivy title as recently as 2012. The 2015 Tigers are able to return seven of their eight goal scorers from last season, including current sophomore Tyler Lussi, who at 28 goals is more than halfway to the program's career record of 47."

    He not recruit one player on the 2015 undefeated team, Despite the slight lull of 2013, the talent still came. They most definitely came. Try that at Brown or Columbia.

    Harvard or Princeton...Princeton or Harvard. Tango and Cash...Cash and Tango. Always top two pay to play Ivy destinations. What i'm interested in is what Hornibrook can do at Cornell. Popular second tier Ivy, but off the I-95 corridor ritz. That's a good dude.

    Leone.."what have I done?"

    --------------------------------------------

    Mike Thomas...Buffalo...California...South Dakota. I guess he gave up having a family long ago. The whole problem with this insane coaching turnover is these same coaches scaring off talented girls and thinning the pool. If the non-revs regimen and schedule was regulated and allowed a normal college existence, there'd be a lot more good players to go around and nowhere near this turnover. When will these coaches get that? I see really top club teams, far <50% of girls actually make it to soph year of college. Rosters bereft of seniors. Own worst enemy.
     
  19. LilKicker

    LilKicker Member

    Dec 9, 2014
    Club:
    Galatasaray SK
    Congrats to Shackford! WM new Head Coach.
     
  20. theguru

    theguru Member

    May 7, 2008
    Julie Cunningham Schackford the new W&M coach
     
  21. TheBigDawg

    TheBigDawg New Member

    Dec 13, 2017
    Wasn’t sure so I looked. Princeton’s 2012 year (and 2005 run) was the exception. They were VERY average other than that. Very little success since 2005. Compare below to Driscoll’s run. It’s one thing to have the players. Another to do something with them. It’s been Harvard’s league until recently. Princeton was nowhere to be found in recent years.

    2014. 7-6-3
    2013. 7-6-4
    2012. 14-4-1
    2011. 6-10-1
    2010. 9-6-1
    2009. 7-7-3
    2008. 12-3-2
    2007. 8-8-1
    2006. 8-7-1
    78-57-17

    2015. 14-4-1
    2016. 10-4-3
    2017. 16-3-1
    40-11-5
     
  22. Holmes12

    Holmes12 Member

    May 15, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Perhaps, Dawg, perhaps. Point taken. But you have to admit, Harvard and Princeton are the two Ivy destinations for all that beautiful money.

    The irony! Shack who handed an awesome team off to Driscoll makes headlines!

    Eh, looks like Lindsey was the other finalist, afterall. She just (re)tweeted for the first time since Dec 3 around noon. About the time of the announcement.
     
  23. TheBigDawg

    TheBigDawg New Member

    Dec 13, 2017
    Agreed that those two are great destinations, but will always lose out to the likes of Stanford, ND, Duke, UVA and UNC. Also great schools that have scholarships. Places like UConn could also have success going after players that the Ivies can’t touch because of academics. Rutgers has proven it. UConn’s issue IMO is that they were left as the only school standing in the game of conference musical chairs when the music stopped. Their conference requires tons of travel to play mostly mediocre programs and schools. Could the right person go in an lift the program back to where it once was? Possibly, but it would take a bit of elbow grease to do it.

    And yes, a surprise on Shack. Thought she was retired, but know her and JD have always been close.
     
  24. StevenLa

    StevenLa Member

    Jan 27, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Any news on the Miami OH search?
     
    calcio1919 repped this.
  25. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Also hearing Maggie Rodriguez to be announced as next head coach. Driscoll was given the offer at similar salary as Lenny. But Princeton countered and gave a competitive salary hike on their end so he will stay. Wasn't UConn $ but it was an increase so good for Driscoll. Really surprised that an Ivy would step up like that, good for them. Shows a combination of wanting to keep a good successful coach and also not having to go through a replacement search.

    Any idea who is on campus at Pitt? Seems like they can’t get a fit. Has to be humbling for the search committee there and probably a new understanding of how hard that job will be there.

    Towson doing interviews now. Richmond wrapping up phone interviews so would assume would have a short list of candidates soon.

    James Madison taking their sweet time. Doubtful they will make an announcement until mid to late January.

    Not sure why Miami OH taking their time, they have known about that opening for a while. Good interest and candidate pool. Public Ivy and great academics, can easily overtake Kent St there for the MAC with the right hire. Parents like strong academics with low cost and values and Miami has both.
     

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