2017 Coaching thread

Discussion in 'Coach' started by elessar78, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. jmnva

    jmnva Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Other coach called me to chat. I only had one side of the story.

    She has no issue with my goalie playing high. The issue was that my players on the sideline were joking with the goalie about her position in a way that she and her players felt was teasing and taunting.

    It makes more sense why she stepped in.
     
  2. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    The concept of "fundamentals" is the opposite of specialization. So does the concept of "total soccer" and interchange of positions.

    USSF doesn't give specific advice. USYSA puts out a lot more information--that is they used to. The last USYSA information I recall was the Player Development Manual and the last USSF information was the Best Practices Manual. What is out there now is advice by individuals associated with USSF and other organizations. There is a general consensus that early specialization is bad because it both impairs player development and increases risk of injury.

    Note that when these individuals talk about specialization, they consider playing only 2 or 3 positions to be specialization. I have played with thousands of adults over the years and coached about 200. Outside of keepers, I recall only 2 players who only played one position. The vast majority of keepers want to play in the field too.

    What position is assigned to a player depends greatly on the available players. Notice that a lot of international players play different positions for the national team then their club.

    IMO there are very few actual positions in soccer. Going by unique skill sets, there are only five positions: keepers, flank players, CBs, CMs, and CFs. In my view players need to be exposed to functional training in these groups before they can know which they are best suited for. That doesn't, at least shouldn't, begin until U14 so specialization in 1 or 2 positions should start later (if at all), like after U16.
     
  3. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    certain words are usually not very productive. Since their first game not too long ago, we've been telling the players not to pass in front of our goal. It's led to conceding some goals. But we've orchestrated ball movement in practices and they seem to finally get it. Yes, sometimes, until they make a new habit words are pretty ineffective.
     
  4. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Someone already hit it until about age 12 is what I was going to say. 12 is about the age of puberty—until then we don't know what your final body type will be. Will the player have speed that is useful in the wings, for example? Then again, it's not till the later teen years where we know what kind of mentality a player possesses.

    Gareth Bale was playing fullback for Spurs, but he eventually became a winger. Emre Can played as a Center Back but now is a midfielder. Philip Lahm was a fullback but converted to a holding midfielder. Even pros get shifted around.

    Why it's important as preteens is because you learn to see the game from different vantage points. You learn the pressures and responsibilities associated with every position. A CB has everything in front of him, but he's under a lot of pressure—a mistake and the opponents are clear in on goal. A Striker also has everything in front of him, BUT where he needs to go is behind him. If a striker misses, it's not as big a deal psychologically as conceding a goal. Wide players also only see the play in front of them mostly, no one is behind them. Central players have it toughest, because action and options are happening 360. The time to make decisions is less with more to process.

    Yeah, it sucks, my team can almost be competitive with teams a year older if I optimize their positions, but I don't have that luxury. I have to throw players that are not good yet into the crucible.

    Today, in fact, we were dominating play but as soon as I rotated weaker players into the backline our dominance evaporated. The weaker players don't grasp the build out concepts yet and we couldn't build meaningful attacks through the midfield.
     
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  5. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    #505 rca2, Oct 22, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
    Hooah! Exactly the right words. In any group some kids are always a little slower than others, no matter what level your team is.

    When the slower kids finally get it and the team rocks in multiple lineups, it is an awesome morale builder. The kids sense it and the parents do too. Great for not only building the individuals' confidence in themselves but also in building the team's confidence in each other. Not to mention their confidence in the coach. :)

    My theory is that when you move players to a new position it takes a while (2-3 games) for the player to be able to read the game well in the new position. But like most things, the initial learning curve is the steepest part of the curve. Once they can read the game, the issue of effectiveness becomes one of skill level.

    Some people think that switching players around instead of letting them play one position for a whole match or for several matches in a row confuses the kids. I didn't find it that way. I think the 24-hour wake sleep cycle is more important to the learning process than whether they spent 20 minutes or an hour in the position.

    I figure that switching kids between positions in the same game mimics the interchange in the adult game (think total soccer and attacking fullbacks). Then in future years when they do begin to learn about interchange of positions, they will not be confused by the switch and unable to read the game. For me the priority was training the brain to prepare for total soccer as an adult, not developing skills at a particular position.

    Do you believe that wingers make great attacking fullbacks if they just learn to defend? Ask yourself why this is that way, if learning to read the game in a different part of the field is not important? Those wingers don't suddenly develop new technical skills. They are just applying their skills in a different part of the field. Or at least that should be the case if they were well trained in fundamentals.
     
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  6. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    How many out there play with a deep lying sweeper?
    I've seen it a few times this year in 11v11 at u14 and 9v9 at u-11
    The u14 team is undefeated and has only conceded 2 goals all year. They beat my team 1-0 and 5-0. We just couldn't find a way around this player. In the 1-0 loss, they played very direct. Anytime their backline had the ball, it was sent into their attacking third immediately.
    In our 5-0 loss, they built from the back a bit more.
     
  7. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Deep lying sweeper seems to be anti-development. No top team plays with a sweeper. But old becomes new in soccer very often. So who is to say?

    Orchestrate how to beat this sweeper. Next time you face them, you’ll be ready.

    I believe the sweeper became phased out because good teams became adept at finding the 3rd man.

    He may be good but he can’t outrun a ball over a 20 yard switch.
     
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  8. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Been reading stuff on learning theory and lessons learned via disfluency, for example changing the arrangement of a piece of music, helps deepen the mastery of the the piece. Research shows it happens across disciplines. Switching positions helps generate this disfluency.

    For example, my seven year olds are learning to split (as CBS)when the GK has it. My starting GK was struggling with this. But since she has been seeing her teammates do it she knows to do it now when she becomes a field player. ALTHOUGH she will still do it even if she is not a Center back. So I do have to fix that.
     
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  9. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    The stuff I read didn't use the word disfluency. The general understanding I took away from what I read was that practicing a movement in isolation gave more short term learning. Practicing multiple movements together gave greater long term learning. Of course for development we want long term learning.

    There is an important but---when we do repetitions of a technique in isolation at the start of practice during warmup that will enhance the likelihood of players performing it correctly in subsequent exercises over the course of the session. The practice of the technique in a small sided game will lead to greater long term learning. So I think the classic training session format uses both types of learning to best advantage.

    I never read of anyone saying anything like that about training session formats, but that is what I believe.
     
  10. Peter Rival

    Peter Rival Member

    Oct 21, 2015
    I think I need to amend my statement a little. We took some time in our last game this past week to move kids into positions they didn't always play normally. The game was already in the bag so despite being a competitive league (vs. developmental) this was a good time to help build team-wide understanding. Basically we moved a chunk of our lineup to positions they don't normally play while leaving others in place for continuity.

    Mistakes were made, people got in positions they shouldn't ... and we got to coach kids that sometimes think others are incompetent on the same mistakes those other kids make. ("Yes, Johnny, when the keeper calls 'clear!' you clear the ball rather than dribble into a forest of players because you don't have the luxury of space in the back line that you do at the front.")

    While the kids didn't get better at the core skills for their positions they both better understood the other positions and developed some skills that could make a difference later. It's always a good thing for a forward to learn how to pressure and defend particularly at an age when they think all they have to do is dribble and shoot and maybe pass once in a while.

    Despite themselves I think they had more fun in that game than in any other so far this year. That's the epitome of winning I think - have fun, learn, develop, grow, and come out ahead on the scoreboard.
     
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  11. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Now that the Fall season is wrapping up, make sure your players take a break from soccer. If they're in a year round program like mine, dial back the intensity. November, December, because of the natural breaks, are great months to keep things chill and reduce the pressure, reduce the load.

    It's doubtful that many of us are trying to peak for a December or January event.
     
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  12. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    i got word that i passed my d license course. it ended up being more stressful than i thought it would be because of the way our instructor handled the pre-course work and deliberate practice assignments. the actual coaching and evaluations were fun to do. the paperwork was not. like it's been said before, the ussf courses seem to be hoops one must jump through for the piece of paper at the end.
     
  13. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I watched my club's U6-U8 academy session last night. It was run by 2 excellent and very experienced coaches, from U-Little teams to College, both genders and everything in between. The older coach, I recognized his name from people talking about him very respectfully on line.

    If you are in favor of our best coaches working with kids in age appropriate academy style training starting at age 4, these two have been quietly doing it for many years.

    They explained how they structured the program and answered all my questions. No surprises there, but the most valuable lesson came from watching them interact with the players.

    The key to developing great players is not a secret. Just teach them to love playing with the ball.
     
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  14. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    i've enjoyed running academy sessions this fall, but i would get burnt out very quickly if i did that every season. in the spring i'm putting together a high school aged travel team. if i can work with the older kids in the spring and the younger kids in the fall, i think that will give me a good balance.
     
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  15. jmnva

    jmnva Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    My teams actually have about 3 weeks left. Weather permitting we have 1 week of games left (might be 2 weeks depending on tomorrows weather). My HS girls will play in a tournament on Veterans Day weekend. My 7th/8th teams are going to merge and play in a tournament the weekend after that.

    I think none of my teams are playing indoor this season.
     
  16. jmnva

    jmnva Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    I knew the refs for both my 7th and 8th grade games. Post game, they were incredibly complimentary about how well my teams were passing, moving and playing.

    My 8th graders clinched their division so we will be going back into the competitive cesspool that is division 1 in the spring.
     
  17. Malabranca

    Malabranca Member

    Oct 6, 2016
    Rained out today, so we run until the first week of December. Futsal in January and February. Back outside the beginning of March.
     
  18. jmnva

    jmnva Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    No rainouts today, so assuming no rain next weekend, regular season will end next weekend.

    My HS girls won 1-0 on one of those totally soul sucking goals (for the other team). On really wet day, the ball was loose in the box and in sort of scooted in. Just after it happened the ref blew the whistle to end the game.
     
  19. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Looking for some advice...

    A buddy of mine, his son is an 06 and plays for our crosstown rival club. We've competed for the local talent in the area for decades. But lately on the boys side, things have swung heavily in our favor. This past season our B-team hammered their A-team.

    He's lamented that they just lack the talent to compete. Our 06 Boys age group is very strong. Our A, B, and C teams are very good. After tryouts this year, a few of our B-team players left for a club that basically doesn't compete in our state league. They are attached to a semi-pro club and train a lot and go to tournaments. The B-team players that left are good players and would probably be at the top of my friend's son's team.

    My question is should I tell him about these players? Since they are not "state registered" they can play for his team. But also, they know about rival club and chose not to tryout for them.

    As a further aside, I really don't care for their club—I believe we are polar opposites in philosophy. I also don't like their coach, kind of a jerk when I coached with him so I'm not really looking to do him any favors—directly or indirectly.

    Am I missing the big picture here? That it's about the kids and am I caught up in petty adult bullshit?
     
  20. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I don't know what your state rules are, so I cannot comment on that aspect.

    From the kid's perspective, they all might be in the best place for them. It all depends on whether they are having fun and progressing. Being over-matched is better for development than the opposite. Losing matches but getting playing time is better than winning and riding the bench. The former 06 B players are probably developing faster training more instead of playing in the state league.

    I was just talking to a very experienced coach about his academy approach for the very young. He had good results with a 4 times a week plan. Starts the week with 2 skills training sessions, followed a session of just unrestricted SSGs--no coaching, just playing. On the weekend they competed with ad hoc teams against traditional organized teams in another club's house league. I don't know any reason why that academy style approach wouldn't work just as well through age 12. IMO team competitions during the fundamentals stage wastes attention and time on developing teams instead of focusing exclusively on players.
     
  21. jmnva

    jmnva Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Seems like a tough situation. Any chance the dad knows the kids in a non-soccer context. If so, I could see mentioning to him that these kids had left your club and leave it at that.

    If he doesn't know them then I'd leave it alone
     
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  22. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I went to the girls HS district finals tonight. Some of the young ladies I've been lucky enough to coach or their siblings were on the field tonight, so I had to go see it.

    Both teams came in with the reputation of being able to play good, skillful soccer. But I think the tough competition worked against it. I saw the ball in the air a lot—always disappointing for me.

    I did get to see the good, skillful soccer in spurts. By that I mean passing combination, the ball moving backwards, 1-2s, etc. One thing I believe a lot of high school teams in my area can improve on: don't lose your nerve to play the small passes, combination, negative passes too soon. They get the ball in the attacking half and they look for the killer pass TOO SOON. It's almost like they only allow themselves one pass in the opponent's half.

    There was beautiful play to bring it up the first 60 yards, but then we are trying to play the killer ball just ten yards into the opponent's half. Keep the ball for another ten yards, get numbers up before trying to play that killer ball. BTW, the striker was always in a 1 on 3 (plus GK) if she were to get the ball.

    But this goes to another point—most of the times the ball was in the attacking half, the ball was poorly supported. Poor movement to improve support angles, players dribbling to the corner for a cross, without the luxury of nearby support.

    Further, that long outlet pass has to be supported. In a 4-4-2 the two strikers must play close together. In a 4-2-3-1, some combination of the frount four must be available for the lone forward. Too often that lone forward was playing in front of the back line—that supporting player helps her get past that back line.
     
  23. Malabranca

    Malabranca Member

    Oct 6, 2016
    It is interesting, it has been one of the hardest things to get those two strikers to stay linked up. I think the natural tendency is for them to spread wide trying to find space rather which of course just isolated them and takes them out of the play.
     
  24. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    Ironically playing with a partner goes all the way back to U8 soccer.
     
  25. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    this morning we held tryouts for a high school aged travel team i'm putting together for the spring. it was 45 degrees with drizzle, but we still had 16 boys show up. we have a few more who couldn't make it to the tryout so we have enough players to choose who we keep. i'm excited to work with more advanced players in the spring after spending the fall teaching the basics. it was fun to see competitive players who are there because they want to get better.
     
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