I'm quite aware that's not what happened. The poster I was replying to specifically mentioned a situation where the GK was punting the ball. Also, "interfering with the release" is not in the laws of the game. Law 12 says "A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hands". In my opinion, Karius stopped being in control of the ball the moment he released it and he was not challenged by an opponent before releasing it. Obviously we disagree with that assessment, but it just becomes the usual back and forth that these threads turn into after that. So we will just have to disagree.
Uhhhh... are you sure? I'm on team No Goal. If this was a punt that had just come off the foot, it would have been shut down, I have a hard time understanding why that's different here.
Watched the match in Bilbao on holiday. Thought it was a good goal by Benzema. Karius was not paying attention.
Fair enough. I was looking at page 99 that covers when the GK was in possession of the ball. I still maintain the GK's release was not interfered with. He was not challenged while in possession of the ball. Benzema did not kick the ball while the GK was in the process of releasing it. The GK had simply released the ball. When a GK throws the ball into the air to punt it, he is still considered to be in control of the ball. That's not what he was doing. He threw the ball to distribute it. He just happened to make a huge mistake and let an opponent intercept it.
This is a goal: https://streamable.com/clsl1 He sticks his leg out after the keeper makes a decision to release the ball. This is much different than the clip shown above, when the player deliberately walks in front of the goalkeeper to harass him and block any ability to punt. In this case, the goalkeeper’s ability to release the ball is not encumbered and he had the ability to throw the ball exactly where he wanted to throw it. It’s his problem that he threw it in a direction and with a trajectory that allowed the nearest opponent to direct it into the goal.
I'm still not sure I see the difference tbh. In both cases the keepers are unhindered for the whole release motion and in both cases there is an opponent blocking the path of the ball before it is released by the keeper. The only difference I see is that Falcao uses his whole torso to block it while Benzema only uses his leg. Is that enough of a difference to take it from being an offence to being legal?
I think it's a good goal. But y'know what? I'm also thinking that if the exact same thing had happened in one of my matches, I very likely would have waved off the goal and cautioned the attacker. Don't ask me to explain that.
Falcao’s offence occurs before the goalkeeper ever punts the ball. It’s the fact that he’s followed the goalkeeper and deliberately placed himself in front of him, thereby preventing a release of the ball. We don’t whistle until it actually affects things in many situations like this (because it’s usually an advantage for the goalkeeper to have the ball in his hands), but we’d be well within our rights to whistle the moment the attacker starts following the goalkeeper in an effort to put him off. With Benzema, he’s done nothing of the sort. He sticks his leg out after the goalkeeper makes a decision and begins to act on it. The goalkeeper knew or should have known exactly where Benzema was. Ask yourself this: what is Benzema supposed to do there? Let the ball go by him and try not to score?
I think that's where the difference of opinions occur. Benzema sees where Karius is going to play. So he makes a play to cut it off. As soon as Karius commits, I see Beznema start to stick his leg out. Benzema wasn't just standing there, and watching the ball go by. He was actively trying to cut that play off. Just look at the stills.
Why does that make it an offense? Benzema didn't stop him from releasing the ball. He didn't challenge Karius while he was in control of the ball. He took advantage of a very big mistake.
I guess it's a difference of opinion. Falcao didn't attack the goalie directly (imo), nor make a direct challenge on him. That goalie had freedom to kick, and wasn't directly stopped from releasing. Falcao attacked the path, just like Benzema. That's a foul, yet this isn't? Both made movements to interfere, neither "attacked the goalie". Only difference is Punt vs. Throw.
I disagree. The video shows Falcao slowing down dramatically to put himself directly in front of the goalkeeper. Also disagree. Falcao is within touching distance of the goalkeeper when he is punting the ball. This meets the requirement in law 12 of "challenging a goalkeeper who is in control of the ball with his hands". The laws specifically include the time between the GK throwing the ball up into the air and kicking it with his foot as being "in control of the ball with his hands". In this situation, Benzema has not prevented Karius from releasing the ball. In my opinion, he has not challenged him while the ball is in the GK's hands. [This is the one part where we could legitimately disagree and someone could consider what Benzema did a challenge] He stuck his foot into the path of the ball.
To preface, I think I’m in the camp of it being a good goal. If this were a free kick and Liverpool was trying to take this quick, would this be preventing the restart of play?
Well sure, but that’s because the player would be inside 10 yards. If you haven’t properly retreated you can’t try to intercept a free kick. So the question isn’t really relevant at all here.
So what's the difference between this and a player lifting his leg up in an attempt to block a goalkeeper's punt? It seems to me that the latter is usually called a foul if successfully blocked and usually results in a caution. Honestly, I don't know what the line is what Benzema did is okay but attempting to block a punt is not.
Yes because of Benzema's movement towards the path of the ball. Of course, in this case the standard isn't to give 10 yards it's only to not challenge the GK while they are in control of the ball with their hands.
Look, what Benzema did tonight falls in a grey area. There would be a point, if he was closer to the keeper, when I would concede that this has to be called because he’s violating the text and intent of the Law. There is also a point—be it 2,3 or 5 yards—where he’d be further from the keeper and everyone here (I hope) would laugh at the notion he committed a violation. There isn’t some magic line we get to fall back on because, at some point, the ball is released and in play. Personally, I think he’s far enough away that it’s not correct to say he’s guilty of preventing the release of the ball (and I also think, based on his actions and as I outlined above, the nature of what he did is simply different than the Falcao or similar examples). Mazic felt the same way. If you feel differently, you have justification to call this. I wouldn’t. I don’t think, despite Henderson’s initial protests, professionals expect a referee to bail a goalkeeper out here. Maybe things are different for you or they should be different at lower levels. But I feel pretty strongly this was the right call here.
Thanks for the explanation. I’m also pretty sure Mazic didn’t see it. I’m pretty sure he was turned upfield when this happened.
AR1 did, as did AAR1. In MassachusettsRef's video clip above, you can see AAR1 talking with the goalkeeper while Benzema celebrates.
I think MassRef said it best. It's certainly in the grey area. I have had this exact debate with assessors and instructors on this exact play. How far away do attackers need to be where the ball is considered to be "live" and "fair game?" Me personally, I think Benzema is too close and I probably would disallow the goal BEFORE seeing this today. Now. I think it's reasonable to allow the goal. You don't want to bail out keeper stupidity. I think it would be interesting as to the reaction of everyone in the media if this was the only goal of the game. Regardless, I think Mazic had a really good game and this performance boosts his stock for the World Cup. They needed some luck. See the Benzema disallowed goal for offside, but overall a strong performance.