I agree with both of you. It also makes me wonder why there is a spot for Stuart Holden to train/workout with the team, but not for many others mentioned by Benny? Surely, Holden is a much longer shot than any of those guys. If Holden deserves a look because he was with the team before he was injured, then why not Davies? Because he played in the Gold Cup? I am not sure what position I would prefer. To be Benny and know that you are out or to be Lee Nguyen and get table scraps with no real chance (so far)? Finally, the article says "Klinsmann made it clear his door is open to Feilhaber or any player who wants to discuss his U.S. national team standing." Do you think JK has had this discussion with Benny? Do you think Benny has taken positive steps to address JK's concerns? Is this just lip service for some who are no longer considered and the truth for others who still have a chance? How would one know what group one was part of in JK's eyes? Would he be so bold as to tell a player that they have no chance regardless of what they do on the field?
It's simple. Performance metrics (outcomes like g/a/positively affecting team results) do all the talking for me.
So how do you think a "discussion" like that would go? "I'm happy to 'discuss' why you are an idiot who knows absolutely nothing and any points you might make will be immediately hand-waved away because having a real conversation with you would be akin to explaining sex to a 4-year-old."
I hope it would be mature, open, and honest. I would hope that Benny, in this case, would go in with an open mind, ready to listen, and not plead his case. You can learn a lot more when you are listening as compared to when you are speaking. Say thanks when JK is done. Then go home and reflect on what he heard and decide if it was worth it to him to try to make the changes JK deems necessary. Either way, he would know where he stands.
Sure, that's how adults do it, but judging the way Klinsmann has commented in the media and how he's responded to even mild questions from the media, asking to explain his decisions, personnel or tactics, somehow I get the sense that it might go more like my version.
Yeah, I noticed when I posted that I forgot to add something like "I think that (what you wrote) is how it will happen, but I would hope it goes more like this..."
I loved Klinsman's response. Benny's tirade shows that Klinsman was right all along - he's a spoiled brat. As for the comparisons with Diskeruud, even if he isn't scoring, Mix works a lot harder defensively than Benny ever did. That's the big difference. If you want to be an attack-only player on a NT, you better be a damn good attacker - and Benny isn't that good.
Maybe true a few years ago, but he has really upped his defensive workrate in the past couple years. Vermes doesn't play luxury attacking players. Benny initially sat, and then got on the field because he upped his workrate. He's 22nd in the league in tackles, with 2.5/game. That is ahead of multiple defensive midfielders. He had both more tackles and more interceptions than Bradley. And more goals. And more assists. And more key passes. https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...PlayerStatistics/USA-Major-League-Soccer-2015
Perfectly said. There's no logical, objective, numbers-driven reason Feilhaber doesn't deserve another look.
Generally, I agree with you that a player should never publicly criticize his coach. Even if he's right, he's still wrong. In this case, Klinsmann has made such a dog's breakfast of the entire National Team program that he is the emperor with no clothes. Unfortunately, the lapdodg media and Sunil Gulati are never going to see what everyone else sees. Klinsmann is a used car salesman who can dupe the rubes only so far. What Feilhaber said is something that a lot of other players and those close to the situation are also thinking. His rebuttal was an arrogant "I know better than you" with no substance or content to back it up. 5+ years into the job and he still hasn't been able to articulate his "vision."
If I could rep your second paragraph a thousand times I would. I say that as a person who also wouldn't put Benny on the Nat's team. I'm not a Benny fan. I call him a cutesy player. He may occasionally pull off a back heal or flip it over the head pass; but as soon as a defender runs by him he's on the ground looking for a call. As for Klinsmann, what a snake oil salesman. They should have fired him after the CONCACAF cup. Even my wife, the casual fan, wonders how he can still be the coach.
Well Benny's 31 years old, while Mikkel Diskerud is 25 and Michael Bradley is 28. That's a numbers-driven reason.
Ok and Jermaine Jones is 34 but he is one of the best at his position. What's your point? Are you saying Feilhaber is too old to be given another shot - a fair shot meaning actual minutes, not a "look in camp"? Considering the form he's been in for his club (again, 10g, 11a vs 3g, 0a) vs Diskerud, age is probably the weakest "numbers driven" argument you could make at excluding Feilhaber from the NT, where starters tend to be in their late 20s / early 30s. That's so absurd, I don't think even Klinsmann would make that case. In fact, here's the lineup from Oct that lost to Mexico in the confed cup play-in: 1-Brad Guzan; age 31 23-Fabian Johnson age 28 (3-Brad Evans,111 - age 30), 20-Geoff Cameron, age 30 5-Matt Besler, age 28 7-DaMarcus Beasley; age 33 15-Kyler Beckerman, age 33 13-Jermaine Jones, age 33 (at time of game, now 34) 4-Michael Bradley (capt.), age 28 9- Gyasi Zardes age 24 (2-DeAndre Yedlin, 78); age 22 8-Clint Dempsey, age 33 17-Jozy Altidore age 26 (11-Bobby Wood, 98) age 23 Just to make it clear, I bolded the players over 30. By your "numbers-driven" logic, 8 guys that played in that game are too old yet only one starter (Zardes) was younger than Mix. Since our lineup was apparently too old, yet were chosen by Klinsmann to start in a key game - how can you rationalize that decision then try to argue Benny is too old to get a fair chance? It doesn't make any sense.
Yes, Jones is one of the best at his position, that's the point. Benny isn't. If Benny were to get brought in, he'd basically be a newcomer, since it's been so long since he's been part of the picture (and not even with the same coach). If JK is going to bring in new faces, it makes sense to bring in younger players who are more likely to be around for more than the next cup.
I tend to agree with you that Benny has been a brat in the past. I also agree that he has better statistics than his competition against the same competition. I also agree that JK is somewhat of a snake oil salesman. To address the quote above, Benny was last called in to camp in early 2014, I believe. The 2014 January camp. The last two January camps have been "experimental" and JK has stated that he was ready to get rid of the concept after 2014. Part of my issue with JK is that he stated something like the USMNT will have the same approach at all levels. That all members of the pool will know how we will play and know what is expected of every position. Perhaps I am putting words in his mouth, but that is how I understood a lot of his early campaigning and promises. To that point, Benny, Dax, Lee, Birnbaum, Trapp, Ibarra, Gil, Kitchen, Corona, Torres, etc Should know the system and what their roles would be if called in. I thought part of JK's approach was to eliminate the newbie, learning curve if you had some past exposure to the program. More plug and play, less need for long camps to get on the same page before competitions. If not, what does a look at some U23 guys really accomplish if they do not get another call for a few years and then have newcomer status again?
He was, based on apples to apples performance in MLS vs Jones, Diskerud, Bradley and Nagbe. Man, I have been repeating the same fact over and over and you continue to ignore it. If he's a newcomer, he's an experienced one with 41 caps for his country and a World Cup under his belt, who is playing the best soccer in his career now - 2015. Why would he not get another chance in 2016? It still doesn't make sense to me.
Well I saw this on the NAT board and thought I'd lift it for here. While it's not much, it is something. We'll see if it translates to minutes in a correct position. From an ESPN Interview with JK. ESPN FC: In terms of the team's creativity, where do you see that next that next wave coming from? Is it a Nagbe, is it Ethan Finlay? Even though he's a little older, is it Lee Nguyen? Klinsmann: You always hope for the next player around the block to be a difference maker. So if you come in, I think Lee could be a player that brings a lot of vision on the field. Darlington has this natural gift to keep things flowing. He's very calm on the ball, controlled. You always hope that some players come in, break in and give you a surprising element. Link to interview http://www.espnfc.us/team/united-st...n-on-jordan-morris-clint-dempsey-and-olympics
This whole thing Benny thing strikes me as much ado about nothing. Benny is not some missing link that would put the US over the top, he had his chance to stake his claim before, he didn't do it, and now Klinsy is looking for a younger model who, if he isn't as good at the moment, it's not by much, and in the next few years will likely get better with age, not worse. Every coach has certain types of players whom he likes, and many a national team coach has players he doesn't like that other coaches would pick. If Benny previously didn't impress on the field, then he would have to work that much harder to overcome that impression he left, and if he also didn't impress off the field, he hasn't done anything to help with that. Dropping Donovan was a big story, but dropping an over 30 player who never did much, and has a history of some attitude problems? Not much there from my point of view.
Benny did quite well for the USMNT and played decently at the 2010 World Cup, as a sub in the last 2 group matches. He provided a through ball for Dempsey that yielded the game tying penalty against Ghana. He was also on the 09 Confed Cup team (with Davies). But apart from his solid performances for the NT, if we take Benny himself out of it, big picture my point is the inconsistency is maddening on who Klinsmann calls in and who he doesn't. If it's about form, then make it about form and give Nguyen minutes in 2015 after the 2014 he had. He's not 30 yet so for those stuck on age, that's another example. If it's about attitude, call in a consummate professional and hard worker like Charlie Davies who had 10 goals in MLS and a history with the nats. It just doesn't seem to be about either or some weird combination that values attitude over performance. You could have 11 of the nicest guys in the world who all have great attitudes but can't get it done when it counts - where does that leave you? All I am asking for is our NT coach to be consistent with his decisions.
Saying a player is solid or decent isn't a bad thing, but it also isn't huge praise either, and more importantly in this case, that was before Klinsman came in. From a national team perspective, where salary and other considerations are not in play, the guys who are solid would be ones you're looking to upgrade on, especially when you're talking about someone who's decent/solid/reliable in a more offensive position, as opposed to using those same terms about a defensive position. And you're talking about using metrics more, but off field team cohesion can't be measured by club stats. I can easily see a coach thinking that, for a guy who isn't a lock down starter, meaning he's likely to not play in some if not a lot of games, if that guy has shown in the past he might start whining and complaining publicly, or privately to teammates, about his playing time or whatever, then the player would not be wanted. I'm not denying that there are many Klinsman's selections which are hard to figure out, and worthy of questioning, but in trying to separate things out, for me, if any other coach were to do this, it wouldn't be a big deal. I think this story is getting more play because of people's unhappiness about other decisions. Dropping Benny may be part of a bigger picture that's worth questioning, but I think it's a small part. I'd love to see some stuff go differently, like Lee being given more of a chance, or Altidore not get coddled so much, and many other things, but Benny in or out of the squad is just not a needle mover for me.
I guess we'll just agree to disagree because as I made the case upthread, from a production standpoint Benny blows the doors off Mix and outperformed Bradley, Jones and Nagbe - his competitors for the same midfield spots. Based on MLS performance in 2015, you could make a case for Nagbe over Feilhaber but based on his 2015 output, good attitude or not, Mix Diskerud shouldn't be on the NT. I used "decent" when describing Benny's past performances, sure, but if we are into semantics I would describe his 2015 MLS campaign as "outstanding". You may be right, this could be small in the grand scheme of things and I am not a Benny defender usually (primarily his time on the revs), however performance talks for me. His omission is a symptom of a larger problem. I want US Soccer to treat the root cause which is to improve on these decisions.
I completely understand your argument about looking at numbers, and I'm not arguing against his MLS numbers of late being deserving, but do you honestly think that coaches or teams should only look at numbers when building a team? If we heard the Revs signed someone by only looking at the person's statistics, without seeing the guy play, and without doing a little due diligence about what kind of locker room presence the guy was, the FO would get abused for it here, and when it comes to Benny, I can see there being legitimate concern about how he'd react if he wasn't playing. Do you not think there's reason to be concerned about that, or are you saying that kind of thing shouldn't be considered for this camp or something?