Not sure what week this is technically. I was interested in opinions on the scuffle that resulted in the yellow to Will Bruin and the Red to Osvaldo Alonso. Houston at Seattle on 10/12 https://streamable.com/uldq?t=116.1 Not sure if I can embed that. I don't have a problem with the red to Alonso. He clearly put hands to the face. What I am wondering is if Bruin deserved a red as well for the whole situation. Bruin gets dispossessed and then takes two swings of his leg at Alonso to trip him up. Nothing hard or malicious, just trying to trip him up. Alonso gets up and extends his arm to push Bruin. Bruin grabs the arm with both hands and pulls Alonso in and holds him and grabs the back of Alonso's neck/collar with a really tight grip at which point Alonso immediately is pushing back including towards the face of Bruin. Obviously Alonso shouldn't have even reacted to the tackle like that. Obviously he deserved the red for hands to the face. But I very much dislike that Bruin can get away with that whole situation with only a yellow. The two kick outs to trip Alonso, Grabbing and pulling him close to begin with, then grabbing him by the back of the collar in that aggressive a manner and never letting go of him the whole time. It appears to me Alonso is pushing away(yes to the face at times) the whole time and Bruin is pulling closer. Then the swipe and then Bruin finally lets go. I don't like how one person can have a grip like that pulling someone closer, while the other person is trying to push away is the one who gets punished more severely. --------------------------- I don't think there was anything the Ref could have done in that moment to prevent it. I mean, you wouldn't blow the whistle and call back the advantage as soon as you saw an altercation start to take place? He was allowing advantage to played for what turned out to be a dangerous opportunity in the box. He took the time and conferred with the AR who was nearby the play. And in real time it is VERY hard to understand what brought them into grips as it happened so fast. -------------------------- Ignoring the specifics and my opinion. With the talk of introducing video replay, would you want similar situations like this reviewed? Is there ever a situation where you see an altercation start to take place as you are letting advantage play and decide to stop play and immediately deal with the altercation rather than let advantage continue to play out? Does that depend on the level of advantage? Clear and immediate attack on goal vs just maintaining possession.
I'm sorry, but that's not "pushing away(yes to the face at times)." That's an all-out, low-class, fingernail scratch to the face -- one that happens multiple times in that sequence. Let's not describe the actions of the Seattle player as "pushing away." From a disrespect standpoint, scratching someone in the face with your fingernails is close to spitting at or on them. Beyond that clarification, this is a very interesting case for whether we balance the punishment or not. For me, the Houston player grabs the back of his shirt/neck & holds on in a manner that is forceful. However, it seems to be one of those cartoon-type scenarios from Bugs Bunny where the big guy with the long arm holds the other guy out so far that he struggles to connect. If they held each other like that, then we would give 2 YCs at best, right? The Houston player kicked him, but that sort of thing happens every once in a while. It wasn't violent and, at best, could be a YC if you needed it for game management purposes. It's definitely stupid. For me, the Seattle player starts it by going at an opponent during live play, the Seattle player uses his fingernails to scratch an opponent several times in the face, and the Seattle player is more aggressive. The Houston player has a firm grip on the shoulder blades/neck/collar, but I can't call that enough for VC. He's not choking him. He's not pushing a thumb into his Adam's apple or his ear. I guess what I'm saying is that if someone is coming at me with vigor, I expect to be able to hold them away without being unnecessarily given a RC just to make things even. There's a bit of self-defense that I'll allow the Houston player in this situation.
Is Bruin grabbing Alonso by the neck or just the jersey? From looking at the replay a few times it looks like he has him by the neck. I can see how in real time it looked like a jersey hold and hence just a caution. There is no question Alonso had to be sent off. With the benefit of replay I think Bruin should have been sent too, and I would not be surprised to see the DISCO slap a game suspension on him after the fact, but I can understand why Fischer opted for just a yellow card. A firm grip on someone's neck is certainly enough for VC.
I think what escalates this whole situation beyond simple low level shoving is when Bruin straight up grabs Alonso and pulls him in close and never lets him go. That is an extremely threatening gesture. I think the level of force used in that escalation of the incident by Bruin deserves more than a yellow. -------------------- I think the crew handled it well considering the circumstances, which is why I ask about potential use of instant replay. I think without the benefit of replay showing multiple angles, yellow and red seems like a reasonable decision as the contact to the face was obvious. Also, the players from both teams not involved handled it well too. They broke it up, rather than making it worse and respected the referee crew while they were making the decision etc.
I think they sorted that out well. It was dumb of Alonso to go back like that. Fisher could have even ended the advantage and brought it back for a UB caution to Alonso, ifk going out. That would have prevented the red, but been almost impossible to sell. I might try that in an amateur game, but at this level, I think you let it go, and then toss Alonso. I'm totally fine with the caution for Bruin. Yeah, he held Alonso's jersey, but he used self-control in not fighting back. I think Cameron got that one right.
There are multiple escalation points. Bruin kicking at Alonso twice and tripping him up. Alsono with the words and the slight shove to Bruin. Then Bruin grabbing Alonso's arm and pulling him in close and then grabbing the back of his Collar with a really tight grip. And that is when Alonso starts pushing back into the face of Bruin. It wasn't Alonso putting his hands on Bruin's face that causes Bruin to grab Alonso by the back of the neck/collar. Its that grabbing by Bruin that Alonso is reacting to. To me that is indeed very threatening actions by Bruin.
wouldn't that situation be a free kick to Seattle and a yellow for Alonso? He would be calling back the advantage. So play would have stopped with the initial foul committed by Bruin. Then the card to Alonso for the extras?
I'm pretty sure the one for the Rapids will now be what you see when you look up the definition of "makeup call".
Not for me. First, if I was Fisher, I would have handled it exactly like he did. But another option (on like an amateur game) would be to call the advantage, then if the fouled player gets up to initiate a confrontation, that shows he wants extras more than an advantage. Kill the play, caution for UB, and ifk for the UB. Players don't get to veto an advantage call by confronting the one who did the foul. And, lets not forget, it was a good advantage call. This wasn't in the catagory of a bad one that didn't materialize. This did materialize, but b/c of UB Alonso risked nullifying it.
Quick comment about Petrescu in the Timbers vs Rapids game. I felt like he let the game get out of hand and then had to call a really tight game to get control back. Specifically, Liam Ridgewell was fouled while contesting an aerial ball - the other player made little to no attempt to actually play the ball, and instead sent Ridgewell into the sideline ad blocks. No yellow. From that moment, both teams started doling out their own punishment, which Petrescu called, but probably could have been prevented had he actually given the yellow. Not proud of the Timbers, as Ridgewell and Chara, both on Yellow Card warnings, received yellows instead of playing smart, but felt like much could have been prevented by Petrescu.
in the rapids timber game, did I miss something, or did they let a sub on at the end of the game, even before the player being replaced had left the field. if this did happen, it could open up a whole can of worms, if something had happened. i saw petrescu running over pissed off, saying 2 more minutes in addition to what he had already added on.
Yes. Vytas was taking a throw in on the far side and was off the field. I believe they let the sub on, and then Vytas stepped back on the field in order to waste time walking across it. He got a yellow. In my opinion, the 2 minutes added was not just for those shenanigans but for other time wasting during the initial 5 minutes of ET.
Careful with the write up on that one, too. Once Vytas becomes a substituted player, he can no longer be cautioned for illegal reentry. He can be cautioned for USB or delaying the restart, the latter being probably the most appropriate. Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
While that would still be a correct statement for MLS since they are still using the old Laws, most of us are using the new Laws, under which a substitute or substituted player can be cautioned for entering or re-entering the FOP w/o permission.
I'm glad they finally changed that to be honest. I had totally forgotten about the change. Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk