2016 CAF Champions League

It's interesting how the dynamic of football has changed in Egypt if you think about it. For a long time Zamalek was the winningest team on the continent. Then Al Ahly passed them and TP Mazembe equaled them, all in recent years. It's interesting how much Cairo football fans were openly rooting against Zamalek, a win would have put them back within one of Al Ahly. I wonder how much that dynamic has changed within Egypt. How popular was Zamalek back then compared to Al Ahly? The Sundowns were even invited to an Egyptian couple's wedding before going home. So it's clear that that rivalry is steeped and Cairo fans do no want to give up any ground to Zamalek, who haven't won the continental title in quite some time.

I wonder how long Kaizer Chiefs, Orlando Pirates and other fans will continue such good-will to Mamelodi Sundowns should they win one or two more continental titles. At some point, South African comradery will give way to other fans wanting to win this tournament. Patrice Motsepe has even bigger financial spending power than Katumbi in Congo and with his political fight he may not be putting much time into revamping TP Mazembe. The North African sides will always be strong, but how will this win affect other big sides in South Africa? Should South Africa qualify for the WC on top of this, might other wealthy South Africans jump on the football fever and invest in clubs to compete for CAF titles? Will the cordiality give way to competitiveness? What Egypt has, is actually where a strong footballing nation wants to be. Where winning continental titles is enough of an expectation, that no team's fans will be happy to see another win that title. South Africa isn't there yet, but you only have to look at the Cairo reception vs Alexandria's to understand that that's where Egyptian footballing fans are.

So I can accept and understand the unifying quality of this win, but you'll know that true continental club contention has arrived when fans of a particular South African side engender envy when they win rather than unity. Or maybe that won't change... who knows...

 

I can tell you first hand I witnessed Zamalek fans jubilantly celebrating Al Ahly's elimination in the CAF group stages to Zesco. So hearing about Al Ahly fans celebrating is not surprising. It's important to note that Zamalek's rivalry with Al Ahly is really steeped in history.

Long ago, Zamalek used to be the bougie club of the Egyptian King. Most monarchists and upper middle class Cairo residents supported the club. Zamalek is actually the name of an affluent neighborhood in Cairo which used to house lots of wealthy Europeans. Al Ahly was the opposite. It was known as the club of the people. The word Al Ahly in Arabic loosely translates to 'public' or 'citizens'. The club was initially established to oppose colonization and the European-friendly monarchy.

Since the fall of the Egyptian monarchy in 1952, you now see lower class Egyptian supporting Zamalek. However, the divisions between the clubs festered for over 50 years and still remained afterwards. The rivalry has really heated up recently because of Al Ahly's dominance in the league as well as in Africa. This rise also heavily contributed to Egypt's NT which dominated AFCON tournaments during the 2000s. A lot of Egyptian fans believe Al Ahly is the beneficiary of favorable calls from officials as well as favorable transfer policies which built their clubs foundation. Passions are further enflamed due to the fact both clubs have TV networks that broadcast and share conspiracies about the other.

Egypt is the only country I've been to in North Africa where the local residents would much rather watch a domestic league game than any of the European leagues (La Liga, EPL, Serie A). Although Serie A has been slightly more popular of late mostly due to Mohamed Salah's success.

 

Very interesting. From what I know of Egyptian history Alexandria was the seat of the Ptolemaic Pharaohs so I guess that it's not surprising that Europeans might visit or move there. What is surprising is that that legacy continues to augment modern Egyptian culture. Again, very compelling to receive such insight.

I suppose that in South Africa this might be similar to a rivalry between Cape Town and Johannesburg but I imagine rugby would be more popular in Cape Town. Cultural rivalries are oka; ideally you wouldn't want it to bleed over into a politically charged atmosphere in the stands. I'm not sure that SA needs that type of thing. In Nigeria it might actually be beneficial because any interaction in a communal space, even a vigorously contentious one, might be a good thing so long as it goes no further than name-calling and maybe a few fistfights or brawls.

In Canada, the Francophone Québécois Montreal and Anglophone Toronto are the two largest economies in that country. But the burgeoning rivalry between Toronto FC and Montreal Impact has not taken on the politically charged atmosphere of similarly culturally-impacted rivalries in other parts of the world, and alot of that has to do with their association with US sporting culture where politics, xenophobia, and racism are very rarely played out in the stands (isolated occasions aside such as the bananas thrown on the ice by Boston Bruins fans and the "where's your Greencard" chant leveled at a Puerto Rican basketball player -and Puerto Rico is actually part of the US, duh- in a college game). But we do like the idea of culturally relevant angles to the rivalry as long as it's without associated rancor.

This even delves into the double-headed coin of why I think that a more popular NPL could be beneficial to Nigeria. Enyimba in the predominantly Catholic Igboland vs Kano Pillars in the historically Islamic city of Kano could be a hugely important rivalry,... if anyone actually cared. Both clubs are historically very successful. There is the cultural/religious divide, the north/south divide, the civil war divide from the 60s and (taking a page from Barca and Celtic) there's even a separatist bent on the part of some of my fellow Igbos who insist that Biafra is still going to happen. So there is the potential for rancor, but such rancor could actually be cathartic in some sense and (while digging into the ethnic divide) simply playing important games against one another in the same league might lead to a sense of commune. As it currently is, Nigerians barely interact with people from other parts of their country in any meaningful manner after completing their mandatory Youth Service. So it goes far beyond sports, a successful NPL could slowly create a real common bond where there is currently very little. I'm digressing. I have my own views on Nigerian politics, but that's for Nairaland...

 

Hi unak, I have been lurking around the forumn for a while. On your comments regarding south African football fans celebrating sundowns victory, I think it is more of a patriotic thing because they proved sa football can compete in the continent. Most south African fans (especaily chiefs fans) did wish for sundowns to lose because of how arrogant their have become (I know because a friend of mine has been insufferable since that sunday). The people who are not yellow but celebrating sundowns are casual fans and optimists that the results piles pressure on their clubs to do as well in continental competitions.

 

what? no way
The only reason South African clubs have been good (that's two clubs) is because at the moment Tunisia, Egypt and TP Mazembe are weak. If Setif wasn't banned Zamalek would not be in the semis.

It's nice to have South Africa clubs but they can't really dominate CAF. These are one offs. Of course they will be in group stage but Al Ahly or Tunisia type domination is out of the question

 

South African fans sit together (side by side) in their biggest derby- Soweto Derby. Just different culture in South Africa

 

Props on MO Bejaia considering this was their 1st ever African tournament (I think). TPM was just too strong

 

Still, these teams are from the same part of South Africa. Sundowns are from Pretoria, if I remember right. Yet fans from the traditionally prominent teams in Soweto are very strongly supporting them. So perhaps we do see a different culture, or we've simply yet to see South Africa's rooting interests diverge to the point where club identity trumps national identity. Perhaps you are right, but who knows if that remains the same if more South African teams win continental titles.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the rise of Sundowns to something so simple. Even TP Mazembe went decades without a continental title until investment came in the form a of an owner/benefactor in Katumbi. If TPM is down, it's partly due to Katumbi's divided attention and difficulties as the result of his political ambitions and the corrupt elements in DRC's incumbent who have used the legal system to thwart him. In Mamelodi Sundown's case, their benefacter is even wealthier than Katumbi and has been pumping money into the team for years. It was only a matter of time before money + ambition = a title. There are many billionaires in South Africa who could decide to emulate what Patrice Motsepe has done now that his team is the talk of the country. The focal point will hinge on how much the value of the team increases due to increased attendance, tv revenues, etc.

 

CAF stuff simply isn't attractive enough for South African public. If you watch their League on TV, the presentation looks like a top European League. Compare this to the poor stadiums and artificial turfs of CAF competitions, you understand why it's okay for Kaizer Chiefs fans that their team is shite in CAF. Even Pirates were woeful domestically and used the continent to justify this poor form. The football in South Africa is already lucrative enough and continental titles is not a reference point in football parlance. On the day Sundowns played the finals there were high level domestic matches in South Africa as well

This Sundowns team is one of those special teams. They have broken records domestically and capped it off with a continental title. It's a legendary squad (if I should say so).

TPM had assembled a neat generation and they moved on. These upcoming guys want to achieve but it has not come together yet

 

This is understandable for some African countries, but this is not the case for North African clubs, who also have many top notch facilities and this should be besides the point. This about more than showcasing your football but also exposing your players to the talent level of the continent as a whole. Exist inside a bubble and you may attempt to exit only to find that the bubble has been digesting away your skills and talent level and that you are the only ones who notice. Continental competitions are the proving ground for new tactics which may help a national team actually qualify for world cups. Not to mention exposing and vetting domestic coaching talents against opposing styles of play from across the continent before gambling with them on a World Cup run. It isn't an intelligent approach. Especially for a nation that relies so much on their domestic league for it's national team. Nigeria's apathetic domestic league doesn't hurt it has much, for example, because their clubs don't develop it's future national team players for the most part, that's done by independent academies with outside funding who almost immediately send them off to Europe to develop (something that I also wish would change). South Africa is wasting it's biggest asset if they're reluctant to test their league against their own confederation because, good fields or not, those are the pitches that you'll have to win on if you ever intend to return to a World Cup.

This is a problem that exists across Africa in different aspects. A partial and incomplete appreciation for footballing infrastructure. Nigeria can develop players, but fails to understand the value of strong domestic clubs in enabling them to incubate talent and fortify certain skills before Europe changes them to suit their needs. South Africa has the strong league, but is far to insularly focused to maximize it's utility. You don't see that in South America and that's why they can stand up to a continent like Europe with a fraction of the latter's population and number of nations. They turn out for and compete fully in all competitions. They support their national team and their clubs. They send players to Europe and they incubate them at home. And you won't see a Brazil or Argentina turn up their noses at competitive matches in Ecuador or Columbia because their stadiums aren't as nice as theirs. No, they do it all. Everything necessary to win in this sport. We do only what we think is enough.

 

True, this has always been a point of concern. They rely on domestic players but don't want to play in continental competitions. But CAF has also not made the competition important- and not just for South Africa. It needs to be expanded proper. South Africa has 3 giant clubs, Tunisia has 4, Tanzania 2, etc. How CAF is not having them in one competition to generate interest, I don't know. Instead they invest in that sham called CHAN.
***
Nigeria (West Africa) is now on the deep end. It is very difficult for them to reclaim their Football. They simply do not have the money to do this.
***
You have to appreciate that Africans do not have the disposable income to go to stadia. I see first hand, people outside who say ticket is too expensive. While it's much cheaper to watch in a restaurant or video place, a European match.

 

The status of stadiums in Algeria has been deplorable for a while now... But Morocco, Egypt and to a lesser degree Tunisia have some great stadiums.

 

Interesting note about Algeria. I remember watching the matches during Raja Casablanca's run to the Club WOrld Cup, great stadium for the Moroccan club.

 

That's no excuse. They simply don't try to make things better and create a standard that average people can aspire to. I have several family members there who live in nice houses in what would be middle class neighborhoods for some in the West. And despite Nigeria's immense poor population, the population is so large that there are enough people with some money to attend matches if properly enticed. No, you can't price the tickets incredibly high, but selling many tickets at very cheap prices is better than selling no tickets at a high price and then having to let everyone in for free after the game has already started. Nigerian club football operates at a loss because they have no interest in trying to create anything that can be attractive to Nigerians. There are poorer countries in Central America that do a better job of filling their stadiums. And look at TP Mazembe, arguably an even poorer country with a fraction of Nigeria's population. Yet their owner built a new stadium, put out a product that wins, and now they pack every game. This is an excuse, and they don't deserve excuses. You would think that all of the millionaires and Forbes billionaires in Nigeria would have big enough egos to try to run a successful football club in their own country, but the only one who matters wants to buy Arsenal. This is the problem.

 

SA & Morocco have easily the best stadiums in Africa IMO.

Oran as well, maybe Sétif and a few other projects. I think a few got dropped or delayed due to many reasons (lack of funds/corruption..etc)

 

DRC is unique. It's like North Africa, the people there are attached to their local clubs. They are now investing in football infrastructure.
***
Domestic leagues in Africa (Nigeria too) totally died in the 1990s. Just when Europe was bringing in TV money. So you have a generation born without seeing the league, the meaning of rivalries in the league etc.
***
Recovery is a long-term process as well. You will be happy to know Nigeria has been doing things towards this end.
They have many midsize stadiums like the North Africans (quality is not priority at this point). Most of them have artificial turf, it's not that ugly on TV. They are also selling the league to a British firm to manage for 20 years ($1.5 bn).
(http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...vestors-offer-1-5bn-takeover-nigerian-league/)
There is also more local interest generated now. It was nice to have Nigeria and South Africa in CAF CL group stage.

 

It's a good step. But Africa is ready for 32 to be honest. It's simply more lucrative to have more. Why lock out two Tunisian clubs that can win the entire thing? Why not take advantage of regional rivalries (like when ZESCO played Sundowns), etc.
16 is a good step but behind the times

 

Africa has top clubs in most countries that would benefit a lot from a well structured competition. Expansoin to atleast 24 teams is needed so clubs from second tier nations like those from mali or tanzania. Clubs like stade malien and yanga have big supporter bases and would help the champions league get a bigger following across the continent. Caf is not realy like uefa where the qaulity is concetrated in few teams so i believe that the competetivness would not really suffer from a 24 or 32 team group stage.
Sorry for grammer i am on mobile.