2016-2017 Offseason Catch-All Thread

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by Totoro, Nov 27, 2016.

  1. Totoro

    Totoro Member+

    Dec 3, 2009
    Colorado
    Here you go. I'm sure there will be much to digest. On the one hand, the offseason started a lot later than I thought it would. The team constantly surprised and had a great fighting spirit throughout the season. On the other hand, they were rarely great to watch, outside of being competitive is an improvement over recent years. And their lack of an attack not only made them less fun to watch, they didn't give you a lot of confidence.

    Did we see the last of Jermaine Jones in a Rapids uniform? Who will tend goal while Howard is recovering? Expansion draft? Ect.
     
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  2. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Member+

    Jul 1, 1999
    MA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Request for @JasonMa to fill us in on what he knows about whose contracts end this season...
     
  3. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Best I can figure:

    Out:
    Jones
    Le Toux
    Serna(?)

    Team option years (probably):
    Badji
    Berner
    Burch
    Calvert
    Cronin
    Conor Doyle
    Kevin Doyle(?)
    Hairston
    Miller
    Pfeffer(?)
    Powers
    Sjoberg
    Watts

    The team option guesses are based on the assumption these guys signed the standard MLS contract with is 2 years + 2 team option years.
     
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  4. jimijam28

    jimijam28 Member+

    Nov 9, 2010
    Denver area
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't see pappa coming back
     
  5. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The team totally exceeded my expectations. I never would have guessed they'd have made it this far. I think on the one hand Pablo has formed this group into the best team it could be. On the other hand its not a very good soccer team. I can't say that I've ever seen anything like this before.

    It's somewhat like having a very good athlete who is not terribly skilled on the team; his skill can help you win and you end up getting a return on the player. On the other hand he's still not a very good soccer player. That's what we have here. A good team that cannot justifiably be called a very good soccer team.

    Can Pablo coach a good soccer team? He didn't take over one. I don't feel like they've built one either.

    Anyhow... rebuilding year... again.
     
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  6. unkiemark

    unkiemark Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Boulder
  7. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2011
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No Thanks, JJ really surprised me but given games he has played the last 3 seasons my max for him is around $250K, RFO please pass even if it's for the Mexican National Team player and all that brings.
     
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  8. jimijam28

    jimijam28 Member+

    Nov 9, 2010
    Denver area
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no way i give him that much - goodbye
     
  9. Stuart95

    Stuart95 Member+

    Mar 11, 2012
    NoVA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Next big event is the Expansion Draft on Dec 13. Here are the rules from mlssoccer.com:

    - 2016 Expansion Draft will include five rounds, giving Atlanta United FC and Minnesota United FC the opportunity to pick five players each
    - In the Expansion Draft, Atlanta and Minnesota will be allowed to select eligible players from the other 20 rosters - - Each current MLS club will have the ability to protect 11 players from selection
    - Generation adidas players who do not graduate from the program at the end of the 2016 season and Homegrown players on a club's Supplemental or Reserve roster will not be eligible for selection
    - Each MLS club may only lose one player in the Expansion Draft. After a player is selected from a club's unprotected roster, that club is removed from the Expansion Draft process.

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...on-draft-rules-atlanta-minnesota-prepare-2017
     
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  10. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2011
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like this method (max loss is 1 player/ team) over previous expansion drafts.
     
  11. RapidStorm

    RapidStorm Member+

    Jan 30, 2005
    Denver, CO
    My thoughts above.
     
  12. AvaiBunton

    AvaiBunton Member

    Oct 24, 2010
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thoughts on player movement

    Out:
    Jones- If he doesn't want to be here at current $$, let him go to LAG
    Le Toux-Bye bye, total waste of Hairston and Serna place on the field
    Serna(?)- Keep, very promising player
    Pappa- Won't stay or released.


    Team option years (probably):
    Badji-Keep
    Berner-Keep & Backup till TH is back.
    Burch-Keep
    Calvert-Keep & Loan to CoSprings
    Cronin-Keep
    Conor Doyle-Bye
    Kevin Doyle(?) -Keep if lowered salary, if not bye bye. Thanks for your service
    Hairston- Keep, very promising player
    Miller- Keep
    Pfeffer(?)- Loan out
    Powers- Sell if PM is still coach
    Sjoberg - Keep and raise for certain
    Watts- Has to go, his play at CB has got to improve to even be loaned out. Why PM starts him is beyond me

    Overall, this team needs to find goal scorers. Doyle just doesn't put enough of his chances away and neither does Badji. Gashi can't carry this team next year by himself. They RFO needs to find players who can finish, plain and simple, as was painstakingly obvious this season and in the final game.

    The D needs to replace Watts with someone who has better positioning and decision-making. Too many times he's out of position trying to make a play as a CB. Sjorberg, Miller and Burch/Williams can all play most games and aren't the problem.

    Midfield needs are probably the least worrisome. Azira and Cronin did their thing and did it well almost all season, aside from a few games. Wing play wasn't terrible either. I think letting go Le Toux and Pappa will free up Hairston and Gashi outside w/Serna subbing for either of those guys. Or let all three of them run the midfield at the same time w/ Gashi as CAM and the other two out wide. Serna's D is suspect, but that can be taught. JJ will be gone, so his play/energy/leadership needs to be replaced ASAP.

    Good 2016! I was pleasently surprised after the previous two seasons. I look forward to CCL and I hope the RFO takes it serious this time.
    #KeepFighting2017
     
  13. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here is how a see our roster today based on age, salary, and performance.

    PROTECT:
    Cronin
    Howard
    Sjoberg
    Gashi
    Hairston
    Serna
    Azira
    Badji
    Watts (too young, cheap, and experianced to leave exposed)
    Miller
    MacMath (too valuable to not protect, very valuable trade token)

    TRY TO KEEP:
    Powers (He's likely too expensive to get picked in the expansion draft unless someone wants to build around him)
    Burling
    Greenspan
    Pfeffer
    Williams (they can only pick one of our outside backs)
    Berner
    Calvert
    Burch (they can only pick one of our outside backs)

    KEEP IF THEY TAKE PAYCUT:
    K. Doyle
    Jones

    TOSS:
    Le Toux (very disappointing during his time here)
    St. Ledger (already gone)
    Castillo (takes up an international slot and not good enough for our defense)
    Pappa (never was a good fit here)
    C. Doyle (a "literally who?" player that contributed nothing)

    SOMEONE ELSE TO THINK ABOUT:
    Ramirez (on loan, but he could be useful later)
     
  14. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 1, 2011
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The First decision is with PM, I think they almost have to keep him but who knows.

    If they keep PM then they need to build team that fits the players he will actually play. Look at Montreal that is built to counter attack, we need our version of Piatti and other skilled speed on the wings, I think Gashi fits but in a 10 role as PM will only put 4 Attackers on field provided they will defend and press.

    We will have significantly less allocation money then from last 2 years of bottom finishes so it's Gashi, Howard (hoping he returns to form from injury) and a top scorer we must have to continue any playoff run.

    I would think Ramirez (on loan DP) contract must be expired
     
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  15. Dom. FC

    Dom. FC Member+

    May 10, 2004
    Central US
    We need some new management to "Make The Rapids Great Again"?
     
  16. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Member+

    Jul 1, 1999
    MA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Man, Watts drive me crazy. I thought he played well for most of the playoffs, but he's so prone to making catastrophic mistakes. The Seattle goal yesterday was a perfect example of it, and something he's done before - ball played in through the air, Watts heads it back into the middle where a Seattle player is waiting and there are no Rapids players. All he had to do was head it out to the side and keep it out of the danger area. But no, he headed it right to the center of the field, about 30 yards from goal. And he does something stupid like that at least once a game. I don't get it.

    That said, I think you're right - I think we protect him given age / salary and our lack of depth at CB.
     
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  17. Rod1916

    Rod1916 Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I have come around to Watts as a CB. Seriously. If you know me, you know that pains me. He has played well as CB and I think is starting caliber. He only switched mid-season, so you have to throw out the crap play from before then. Since he switched, I think he actually has done a good job. Just already had a reputation, so any small mistake gets magnified.

    I would keep him on the list, particularly since he is young, inexpensive, and likely to only get better. Heck, even if he is our 3rd CB (depth), then he is worth keeping.

    The rest of the team seems pretty obvious as pointed out by others.

    As for PM, I am really not sure what I would do. Great year overall, so maybe he gets an extension. Seattle game showed the weaknesses big time. I suspect PM is self-aware enough to acknowledge the weakness and work on it over the off-season (nobody can accuse him of not working hard to learn).

    Honestly, I think replacing JJ with someone who will be on the team more than a few games but still has that kind of impact is critical.

    rod
     
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  18. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd agree he's probably improved to the 3rd CB role but I'm not ready to rely on him as the starter.

    And, much like Pablo learning on the job for the last two seasons, we can't afford to have players learn on the job as much as Watts did this year. We really needed to realize St. Ledger wasn't an option and fill that spot instead of hoping Watts would figure it out.
     
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  19. mccoy86

    mccoy86 Member

    Aug 2, 2015
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    That is exactly my problem with him. He plays decently, but makes one or two boneheaded costly plays a game. Still, we are going to need more depth next year (with the four extra CCL games), so I don't mind him sticking around. He did improve quite a bit this year, so hopefully he can continue to improve.

    I'm not sure if we should protect MacMath. He wanted out earlier this season, and I'm sure he'll be asked to be traded again. Although we might be able to get something in a trade, I would rather not risk losing someone else for the potential trade return of MacMath. Instead, I think we should leave MacMath unprotected, let him get drafted by Atlanta, and protect the rest of the roster.
     
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  20. Paranoid Coyote

    Paranoid Coyote Member+

    Oct 21, 2007
    Memphis, TN
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Too soon! :p
     
  21. SccrDon

    SccrDon Member+

    Dec 4, 2001
    Colorado Springs
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Rapids went as far as a 1-dimensional team can go. It was a great ride, especially compared to my pre-season predictions. If you told me in February that the Rapids would lose in the conference finals, I would have laughed in your face.

    I'd be ok with Watts as the 3rd CB, as others have mentioned. We need to get to CBs that can be trusted so that we can play with 1 DM instead of 2 and have 5 attacking instead of 4.
     
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  22. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Remember, you want to protect the players that are most appealing to other clubs. Not necessarily guys who are going to be a starter with us next year.

    Watts does have trade value, and there are a number of clubs that would give him a go based on being relatively young, having a considerable amount of first team experience, and not being a big hit on a salary cap. Yeah, a guy like Powers brings a lot more to the table for a club looking to fill a spot, but that hefty price tag would give them pause. Any club that is willing to pay the price for him is likely to make him a big part of team...which would be a positive move for him career wise since he hasn't really been able to keep a regular spot on our team.
     
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  23. Rod1916

    Rod1916 Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Don't disagree with the past (we should have had someone there so Watts didn't learn on the job). But we didn't and now have a decent CB who is young and inexpensive. I would not jettison him at this point. Before the learning, probably (or loaned him out to Charlotte).

    rod.
     
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  24. Stuart95

    Stuart95 Member+

    Mar 11, 2012
    NoVA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My take on Quinn's list:
    PROTECT (in order):
    Cronin
    Gashi
    Hairston
    Badji
    Sjoberg
    MacMath (insurance in case Howard doesn't recover quickly ... great trade value)
    Miller
    Burch (had a great season under PM, thought he was one of the most underrated guys all season)
    Williams
    Azira
    Watts (young, experienced, value for the money ... infuriating as well but has potential)

    TRY TO KEEP (in order):
    Howard (I'd leave him unprotected since I doubt an expansion team will pick him up on a DP contract)
    K. Doyle
    Serna (definately want to keep him but with his injury, don't think clubs would risk taking him letting us protect others)
    Burling (veteran and able to step into CB ... should've started instead of Watts in the playoffs)
    Powers (seems to have peaked but a steady backup)
    Greenspan
    Pfeffer
    Berner
    Calvert
    Jones (overpaid for the limited time he was on the pitch but amazing when he was actually playing)
    C. Doyle (probably destined for Charlotte or the Switchbacks but showed promise at DC/COS)

    DUMP (no order):
    Le Toux (showed his age and isn't a long-term answer to our scoring woes)
    St. Ledger (thought he'd left already ... physically, not mentally)
    Castillo
    Pappa (like La Toux, showed his age this season)
    Ramirez
     
  25. unkiemark

    unkiemark Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Boulder
    The first step in figuring out next season is the RFO making a decision on Pablo. One way or the other it needs to happen soon, as within two weeks. If he's not going to be offered an extension then they need to parlay this season's success into landing a talent that can improve the attack while keeping the defense at roughly the same level as this season.

    The next question is how serious they are going to take the CCL. Are they wanting to go deep? Or is it just an afterthought? If they are going to attempt to get out of the group stage and move along in the knock-out rounds then obviously depth will be important.

    As someone else has stated, it looks like 2017 could be a rebuilding season. To me this means that the RFO needs to be very active in making personnel moves and they can't wait to till next summer to do so.

    In terms of this current personnel:

    • K Doyle - love his intensity and dedication, but he hasn't earned DP money. Would take him back at a much lower price.

    • JJ - love his passion, but again age and injuries don't make me think he is worth DP money. Would like to have him back at a less than DP price.

    • Pappa - not sure he fits Pablo's system.

    • MacMath - with the loss of Howard it would be nice to keep him till at least mid-season 2017.

    Lots of other to talk about, but some other time.
     
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