2015 US Open Cup qualifying thread (yes, 2015)

Discussion in 'US Open Cup' started by olujosh, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am also working on setups where the NASL gets an extra bye-round over the USL-Pro. One thing is that "PDL (19), NPSL (11)" are odd numbers (both in the mathematics sense, and the "it seems strange" sense). I wonder if they have already mocked up an East-West bracketing, or a four-region bracketing. [Maybe I'm overthinking this, and they just wanted to get to 64 non-MLS teams.]
     
  2. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another try, putting MLS into round 4, NASL into round 3, USL-Pro into round 2, and eliminating the Preliminary round.

    Calcuations: There are 56 teams (USL-Pro and amateurs), and then get these down to 48 in round 2, so there are 16 teams in round 1. The three main amateur leagues get most of their teams in R2, and some in R1:

    R1: PDL (9), NPSL (3), US-Adult (2), US-Club (1), US-Specialty (1)
    R2: R1 winners (8), USL (14) , PDL (10), NPSL (8), US-Adult (8)
    R3: R2 winners (24), NASL (8)
    R4: R3 winners (16), MLS (16)
     
  3. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't like taking three levels (PDL, NPSL, and US-Adult) and splitting up what rounds their clubs start in. I would rather all the US-Adult clubs start in Round 1 and all the PDL clubs start in Round 2 if I had to keep the number of clubs in each round the same as in your proposal. I also don't like having a Preliminary Round with only 2 pairings. How about this:

    Round 1: Clubs in levels below PDL (23) and PDL except for the top two (17)- 20 pairings, 60 clubs remaining after that.

    Round 2: 20 Round 1 winners, top two PDL clubs, and 2 USL clubs randomly selected from among the expansion clubs there- 12 pairings, 48 clubs remaining after that. I would make it a random draw within regions except for a guarantee that the 2 USL clubs would not play each other.

    Round 3: 12 Round 2 winners, remaining 12 USL clubs, and 8 NASL clubs- 16 pairings, 32 clubs remaining after that.

    Round 4: 16 Round 3 winners and 16 MLS clubs- 16 pairings, 16 clubs remaining after that.
     
  4. NOLA

    NOLA Member

    Jan 10, 2009
    New Orleans
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Both teams have qualified for the Region III National Cup.


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  5. Owen Thornhill

    Dec 22, 2012
    Club:
    Cork City
    Des Moines Menace Qualify through the PDL and the USASA. two rosters, one weaker than the other. Will have to be kept apart. Far from ideal but they get good crowds and is just another payday (probably less for the weaker team)
     
  6. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #31 SJJ, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2014
    Statement on USASA Region II (Midwest): http://soccermidwest.us/2014/08/13/the-2015-open-cup-situation-clear-as-mud/

    August 13, 2014

    The 2015 Open Cup situation...clear as mud [Their headline!]

    Teams interested in the Open Cups this coming year have two events to consider, the USASA Werner Fricker Open Cup and the US Soccer Lamar Hunt Open Cup,....

    As for the US Lamar Hunt Open Cup, the need for a regional winner and runner-up to be declared by March 15, 2015 means that we'll begin our regional qualifiers no later than September 28, 2014.
     
  7. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    P.S. LHUSOC R-II qualifying registration deadline is September 2, according to the spreadsheet linked in the article.
     
  8. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some interesting words from a USASA point of view, from Mike Edwards speaking at the USASA Mid-Year Meeting (MYM). The Open Cup talk starts at the bottom of "page" 19. (The PDF has each page divided into quarters, so sheet 5 of the PDF has document pages 17-20. Be careful to read the quarter-pages in the correct order: 19-to-20-to-21-to-22; where I mussed that up a couple times): http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0063/7995/9-25-14_USASA_Midyear_Meeting.zip.pdf

    This is a transcription of a live speech, so you may need to give some latitude on some of the phrasing. Like "I have the microphone and I'll say what I want" was meant to be non-serious. (In other parts of his talk, he jokes with the audience, etc.)

    On serious matters of the Open Cup, he talks about trying adapt a 1980's-style tournament (he gets sentimental about this) to 2014's realities, and trying to herd in the MLS, NASL, USL-Pro, and amateurs into one cohesive view (which leads to his joke about playing the Open Cup seven nights in a row to get it over in a week). But later he says that the MLS would rather play the whole tourney in March and get it done (a rather biting statement). He tries to stress that the tournament needs to be more attractive to the amateur sides.
     
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  10. Owen Thornhill

    Dec 22, 2012
    Club:
    Cork City
    as there is no tread for the 2015 thread yet, Ill just add it here for now. but with 17 MLS teams in 2015. Will the MLS teams enter in the last 32 (like the last few years) or a huge last 64?

    USSF could give the MLS two choice's in my opinion
    1. MLS clubs enter in the last 32 if the MLS allows a weekend for the US Open Cup or
    2. MLS clubs enter the cup in the last 64 and play midweek as usual.
    17 MLS + 9 NASL + 21 USL PRO = 47 + 17 non pro team from the previous round?

    My problem with the MLS entering in the last 32 is that 2 MLS teams will simply not play a team from one of the lower leagues, but if they allowed one weekend in the schedule for the US open cup it would really help the US open cup and would be worth it.
     
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  11. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 17 American MLS clubs could enter in the Round of 32 with NYCFC and Orlando City automatically playing each other and the other 15 playing a lower level club.
     
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  12. henryo

    henryo Member+

    Jun 26, 2007
    Or NYCFC simply play NYRB (as the only Local Derby in MLS by then). ;)
     
  13. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My point was that the only MLS clubs who got punished by having to face another MLS club would be the expansion clubs. With the way the U.S. Open cup is regionalized, NYCFC and NYRB could meet if they each won one game.
     
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  14. Owen Thornhill

    Dec 22, 2012
    Club:
    Cork City
    In that scenaria would the 9 NASL teams get a by to the previous round of 15? or compete in a previous round of 30? Im really interested in the format for next year if you can't tell
     
  15. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I haven't thought about that. Before I made a format I would want to know how many teams from each level I would have to include. If the 9 NASL clubs started in a previous round of 30 (15 clubs would advance to face MLS clubs but the round would have 30 clubs, not 15), that round would be the sixth to last round. The 2014 tournament had 80 clubs, and if you do 80 - 17 MLS - 9 NASL you get 54. Getting from 54 clubs (give or take a couple) to 21 clubs (30 - 9 NASL starting there) would require at least three rounds (at least nine rounds total), and that might be too many. the 2014 format was announced on April 24 according to Wikipedia.
     
  16. Owen Thornhill

    Dec 22, 2012
    Club:
    Cork City
    Thats why the MLS,NASL and USL PRO all starting in a round of 64 would be better
     
  17. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think MLS would like their clubs to start in the same round as two lower leagues, and MLS clubs wouldn't like being one more round away from winning it. The English FA Cup model has the top two levels starting in the Round of 64 (which they call the Third Round) and clubs in the third and fourth levels (League One and League Two) starting two rounds earlier.

    Edit: Given that MLS and NASL will have fewer than 32 combined clubs, even if you guaranteed those leagues separation from each other in the Round of 64, a PDL, NPSL, or otherwise lower level club could be drawn against the MLS champions or a USL club in the Round of 64, making the draw a bigger deal. Currently every game in the round MLS clubs entered has been an MLS club vs. a non-MLS club.
     
  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well there will be 17 MLS teams, 9 NASL teams, and I am not sure how many USLPRO teams.

    I would say have the 9 NASL teams, 1 MSL team (NYCFC or Orlando by coin flip?) and the top 6 USLPRO start in round 3, then the other 16 MLS teams start in round 4.

    All other USLPRO teams join in round 2.
     
  19. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo

    Assuming the Red Bulls actually do start their own team, there will be 21 U.S.-based USL Pro teams in 2015.
     
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  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    21 - 6 = 15

    Man that would squeeze out lots of PDL/NPSL/other teams, so my proposal won't work.

    Last year by my count had 42 non-pro teams.
     
  21. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    The USSF is not going to reduce the number of amateur teams. There are 9 new pro teams (USL Pro, NASL, MLS). The first round is just going to get bigger. Last year there there only 8 games in that round.
     
  22. fridge46

    fridge46 Member

    Oct 23, 2011
    I think USSF can use the same format as last year, but move USL-Pro teams a round later, and MLS teams a round earlier:

    R1: 16 teams [5 PDL, 5 NPSL, 4 USASA, 1 USSSA, 1 USCS]
    R2: 34 Teams [14 PDL, 6 NPSL, 6 USASA, 8 R1 Winners]
    R3: 64 Teams [17 MLS, 9 NASL, 21 USL-Pro, 17 R2 Winners]

    Changes from 2014 would be: MLS teams play 1 extra match, USL-Pro teams play 1 less match

    Only ones who potentially wont be happy would be MLS teams, but with more expansion teams to come, sooner or later, they are going to have to join at the Last 64 stage.

    The number of MLS and CCL matches arent going to increase any time soon, so is there any difference in having to play 1 extra match in 2015 than 2017?

    Apologies if such a format has already been suggested
     
  23. fridge46

    fridge46 Member

    Oct 23, 2011
    #48 fridge46, Dec 22, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
    Or if we want to keep the staggered format for MLS/NASL/USL-Pro:

    R1: 42 teams [All those in PDL, NPSL, USASA, USSSA, USCS - Identical allocations to 2014]
    R2: 42 teams [21 USL-Pro, 21 R1 Winners]
    R3: 30 teams [9 NASL, 21 R2 Winners]
    R4: 32 teams [17 MLS, 15 R3 Winners]

    Differences from 2014: No byes for PDL, NPSL USASA, USSSA, USCS teams.

    Overall no league will need to add extra dates to their schedule compared to last year

    Both is and the previous suggested format has the same number of amateur teams as 2014
     
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  24. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would be fine with me.

    Does anybody know if Greater Binghamton FC of the NPSL will qualify? If that hasn't been determined yet, when will it be determined?
     
  25. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    If they use the same system as last year GBFC should have qualified.

    Their website says they are in:

    http://greaterbinghamtonfc.com/

     
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