I predicted a couple of years ago that Neymar would overtake Messi and CR7 in a very short time. With his second season in Spain, Neymar is more comfortable on the soccer field and he is beginning to do the same things he used to do at Santos. Of course, he is much stronger now and is also a lot more mature. I also like the fact that he constantly praises Messi and lets the world know of his opinion that Messi is the leader of the team and the best in the world. He will learn a lot from Messi this year which may be Messi's last at Barcelona. BTW, I believe Messi wants to try something new i.e. the EPL and Barcelona will let him go for 200M euros provided that they can find a creative and fast offensive midfielder who can feed Neymar and Suarez. They are looking at Roberto Firmino who has the "potential" to be an excellent midfielder. Anyway, I believe that Neymar will dominate the football world a year from now and everyone with a brain shall come to know that he is the very best and there is no one like him including Messi and CR7 who are currently the best.
Cool story. At his age Messi won a Ballon D'or and CR7 placed 2nd. He won't even crack Top 5 this year. That last sentence of yours is pure delusion.
well to be fair ... Messi was raised and nurtured by Barca system since 14 - and started playing in pro league at 18 for big Barca CR7 started playing for big ManU at 18 Neymar was playing for Santos from 16-20 ( a pro-league but smaller club) - hence called "new Pele" ... =============================================== But agree with you, up to now, I do not think Neymar will be same level as Messi/CR7 ... and he will be crowned WPOY soon when those 2 worn out
I would welcome that! I like Neymar. However, if Messi should switch leagues it would be nice to see him light it up with a new passion. And CR7 ages like wine
you know well it won;t happen - or say less than few % chance However, just for fun, what if CR7 switched to play with Neymar + Suarez + Iniesta for Barca vs Messi + Bale+ James + Benzama at Real?
I don't think Neymar has even separated himself from his peers... Gotze, Hazard & Isco are all on his level and an argument can be made for any of the four (Isco less so due to playing time, but he has been immense over the last month or so, including a very decent El Clasico outing). After this group, there's the group of players behind Messi & Ronaldo (Suarez, Ibra, Robben) who are also ahead of Neymar and the other young 'pretenders' ... not to mention the likes of Aguero, Silva, Di Maria, Tevez, Benzema, Muller, Reus etc etc. It cant be that easy to surpass generational players like Messi & Ronaldo.
@Pipiolo I understand why Argentinians feel that way lol but he is a top player. @JamesBH11 Why would you consider Gotze to be inferior to Neymar? Isco I can understand due to lack of play time, though ever since he got a regular run he matched Neymar and arguably played better in the Clasico. Gotze though has clearly just been as good IMO. Their career trajectories are fairly similar too i.e Dortmund = Santos, 1st seasons at Barca and Bayern were similar in that they didnt show their full potentials and so far they are top scorers and playing world class football in their 2nd seasons.
Neymar is now playing in a similar job and role as Gotze (though still skewed towards the left side). Neymar is clearly better and is now actually living up to all the hype, hoopla, money magnetism and marketing. And Hazard has been for the past two seasons and this season performing better as Isco. He's tremendously important for Chelsea. Apart from an accidental goal in a World Cup final or so, I don't know why people would Gotze or Isco rate at a similar level right now. Both would wish they are equally pivotal for 'AAA brand' as Hazard has been for the odd 1.5 years.
Why exactly is Neymar 'clearly' better than Gotze? Both are topscorers for their clubs, both have tremendously upped their game this season as compared to last season. If it's a comparison of attributes/abilities, I'd say Gotze is the finer technician, better passer and a more intelligent player whereas Neymar excels him in physical attributes such as speed, explosiveness and probably shades it in terms of finishing. I've watched all Barcelona games this season and majority of Bayern games. What in your opinion is Neymar doing that sets him apart from Gotze? I agree that Hazard has been more consistent though and is actually IMO the closest to separating himself from this 'quartet', Isco too is the closest to being left behind but I'd say he has redeemed himself over the past month. A random ranking would look like this; 1) Hazard 2) Neymar 2) Gotze 4) Isco @PuckVanHeel
It was a good cross and a sufficient finish from "point blank range". What a few people often say about Zidane his two "point blank headers" in the 1998 final applies equally, if not more, to this substitute goal in extra time. We talk here about a centre-forward that had 1.5 shots per match in the tournament, with 80% of his attempts taking place inside the penalty area. As we all know, a player like Cristiano Ronaldo scores 40-50 goals in a year, and Ibrahomivic about 30-40 goals with 4-6 shots per game etc. If they score goals in finals, even as substitute, it isn't surprising. I do acknowledge it as an achievement, that is why I say: "Apart from an accidental goal in a World Cup final or so, I don't know why people would Gotze or Isco rate at a similar level right now." Accidental - 'happening by chance or accident; not planned; unexpected' http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/accidental
He is also more important for Chelsea. He adds the penetration and against Arsenal for instance he also showed variety in his passing, even though his decision making can/should be better at times. Past season he was their club topscorer as well. In terms of Neymar vs Gotze I think Neymar is more important too. See it as anecdotal evidence but both Squawka and holy WhoScored show Neymar ahead (WhoScored: 22 vs 35; Squawka: 21 vs 131). What happens when you take Neymar out? (and imagine you didn't have Suarez, who can't provide the same penetration and drawing of fouls IMO) Messi is already taking close to twice as many shots (33 vs 53 says Squawka) than Neymar. I think Neymar scores more often the important goal too (opener vs El Clasico the main example, or the equalizer against PSG, opener vs Ajax, first two goals vs Bilbao - which have been pretty much the most crucial games so far), and that is before we go into the international game where Neymar is at the moment miles ahead of Gotze - and in fact almost any other forward. The biggest difference between Squawka and WhoScored is by the way that WhoScored ascribes significantly more importance to a goal (irrespective of circumstance/nature) as Squawka does. http://www.tussendelinies.nl/squawka-en-whoscored-vergeleken [article is in my native language] The value of a goal is the main difference between both websites, with touches on the ball being second (WhoScored rates every single touch much higher as Squawka).
Thanks for the clarification. It may seem like I'm nit picking but it's not my intention. I just found the terminology a little strange. I don't think Germany or Gotze were trying to score by accident. Obviously the intention is always to try and stick the ball in the back of the net. I would tend to agree with yourself that I am not sure I would have Gotze labelled in the same bracket as Neymar just yet.
@PuckVanHeel ... I sort of agree with their whoscored rankings, Neymar being slightly ahead of Gotze. On the issue of importance, Hazard had a head start with the departure of Mata.This season with the addition of Cesc and Costa he could be third most important and arguably even 4th to some pundits (FAPL Tv) who are all over Matic this season. He offers them penetration though but arguably his importance to the team will dwindle slightly this season. Neymar is currently 2nd most important at Barca, Iniesta's drop in form and Suarez' suspension contributed to that but in fairness to Neymar he stepped up to the plate with the important goals and overall improved perfomances. Gotze though has his path blocked by Robben, Muller and the returning Ribery. He is arguably a sub when they are at full strength. But he has taken his game up a notch IMO and being Bayern's topscorer while still maintaining his playmaking instinct is testament to that. Germany like Bayern have several Gotze alternatives too, Reus, Muller, Ozil, Schurle, Draxler etc all limit his 'importance'. Neymar and Hazard have no such problems, if one can call them that. Hazard and Neymar are indeed more important for their clubs whereas Gotze is still a luxury for Bayern and we are yet to see if he is a starter when they are at full strength. Two other interesting players in that age group are Pogba and Verratti. What do you make of them?
@Edhardy - Come on man, you watched the WC! There were four or five better players than Hazard in Belgium alone, let's just say he can't even tie the shoelaces of Neymar (a candidate for Golden Ball until his injury). In fact, I would rate Hazard as a distant fourth amongst those up and coming talents.
I have no doubt that Neymar has the talent to be number one footballer in the next coming years but I think people need to be realistic that the time has not yet arrived. Imo the fact that he plays second fiddle to one of the best players is the obstacle and was always going to limit his potential. I personally believe that it is almost impossible for any player who is not the main player for his team to somehow ends up being the best in the world. Prior to Neymar leaving Santos I had hope that he will not chose either Barca/Madrid because of Messi/Ronaldo of course. I feel the opportunity was there at the likes of ManU, Bayern, Chelsea, Arsenal, Milan, etc. My reason is based on the fact that before his transfer these above stated teams looked like they had room for their own superstar. Yes ManU has Rooney but I am certain with exception of board of directors at ManU it is clear that Rooney will probably never reach the level that many people thought he was going to reach. He might be overpaid but that in itself doesn't put him on Messi/CR level which imo Neymar had/s potential to reach due to his age. Bayern had both Ribery and Robben but imo they were more equal till recently where Robben seems to be becoming the main man, Arsenal had no one and offers plenty of exposure, the same with Milan, and probably Chelsea. The reason for exclusion of PSG and ManCity is lack of prestige imo. Unfortunately Neymar chose Barca and as a result to many he is viewed more as a very good player rather than best in the world. At the moment I think he is basically competing with the likes of Bale, Hazard, Aguero, Ribbery, Gotze, Reus, Suarez, etc. I think as things stand it is basically impossible to compete with either Messi/CR. The reason being these guys have been doing this thing (i.e. being super) for almost eight years running and even when another player comes he won't only be competing with them based on a season, to many people their reputation also plays a role. This is on top of scoring 50 odds goals every year to complicate the matter worst. Personally I can't wait to see the likes of Neymar, James, Hazard, Isco, Munir, Pogba, Backley, etc being the main men as this Messi/CR thing is buzz kill. I am amazed that people still celebrate when these guys score, to me they took excitement of goals out of me, only their goals though. I guess it is the reason why people are arguing for Neur to win Balon d'Or. Nothing to do with logic just boredom has reached its peak.
I get you, to be fair though, Hazard is not the first NT underperformer. A lot of Brazilians felt Ronaldinho didnt bring his best form to Brazil after 02, nor did Kaka, Messi took his time, as did Cristiano after 06... aside from Cannavaro, these guys have won the last 9 Ballon D'ors without necessarily bringing their best to any national tournament. Hazard has barely missed a step since his 2nd last season at Lille, in club football that is.
You pretty much demonstrate why I'd say that Neymar is clearly better as Gotze right now. I do acknowledge that Gotze, as all players mentioned here, has qualities that Neymar doesn't have, but the question is how instrumental those are and to what extent it enlarges the probability for a win and scoring goals by the team. For example: although Gotze his passing is more accurate, I still find it rather unspectacular, lacking in range and general not something that adds a lot right now. Hence no surprise that for ex. Alaba, Robben show more accurate through-balls as Gotze at the moment. The truth is of course that it's a team sport. The finisher is helped by a good pass and a great pass is often only great because the runner follows the right path without being too early or too late... A strong team will open up space for the dribbler in transitions, and if you receive the ball to your strong leg all the time it helps a great deal too. The 'path is blocked' observation also means that Neymar receives less assistance as a forward player. True, it is still Barcelona and still Brazil but what you describe also means he has to do more on his own, as the 2014 World Cup pretty much demonstrated in convincing fashion. For Barcelona you ignore that his path to more goals is blocked by Messi (who still takes by far the most shots, and Neymar is still skewed towards the left side) and possibly Suarez. It is not unthinkable that Neymar, also because his qualities are better suited for surged runs from the deep, has to sacrifice further scoring potential in order to do Suarez let his thing. Neymar playing wide and deeper will (at least in an attacking sense) result in more scoring potential as playing Suarez wide and/or deep. Until now Neymar has scored important goals in the most important matches so far (if I look at the game log I'd say that PSG, Ajax, Bilbao, Real Madrid. If you take Neymar out, then the question is who else had made the goals. As always (something I underestimated perhaps) people have different perceptions about what make someone a 'better' player. There's not really a consensus. Many rely on aesthetic qualities (in case of forwards) and who looks nicer with the ball. Sometimes the argument is that a player is a great floor leader, or simply that a player scores a lot of goals (which was rightly said by a few in other recent thread). In case of the indispensability of a player we see basically two variants as well: 1) he's important for a team and difficult to replace (like Zidane in the star-studded France team); what happens if you replace a star player for an average player or 2) 'drags mediocre team or forward line to glory'; basically the idea what happens if player X is surrounded by 10 average players and what player Y will do if you give him the same 10 average players. Often, in the press as well, it is that a player is liked and they subsequently look for the reasons why he's better. In my opinion Neymar ticks most of the boxes. He doesn't look as nice with the ball but you yourself seem to suggest that he has a few qualities too (like finishing), which doesn't make it a difference of night and day when all pluses and minuses are added up. Neymar has scored more goals than Gotze so far (club & NT), scored more vital goals in great matches so far (in my opinion), is more important (which you agree with in the post above), harder to replace and probably he will also do better if you drop him in any random team. With a stretch of imagination you might say they are similar for their club, but the national team dimension makes Neymar stand out. I don't see every football match and I see not a lot of Italian or French football. Verratti at his best is a type I like. Maybe he can improve in his retention and losing of the ball. In case of Pogba I don't have the feeling he has already separated himself from the other Juventus midfielders, although Vidal has slipped since his injuries I think.
@JamesBH11, Gotze & Neymar (plus Hazard) are all around the same age (22,23). All three already had their breakthrough seasons at 'lesser' clubs... Dortmund, Santos & Lille. Gotze and Neymar moved to big clubs at the same time (Bayern and Barca), both of them had so-so debut seasons due to injuries and off field issues for Neymar and injuries and too much positional rotation for Gotze. Both have had equally great starts to their sophomore seasons. I don't see exactly what Gotze has to prove, unless you can enlighten me. In my opinion, it is Neymar who has to prove he is far ahead of his peers (Gotze, Hazard perhaps Bale too) and in the bracket of players behind Messi & Ronaldo...(Robben, Ibra, Suarez). Arguably even the sub group behind this group that has the likes of Aguero, Costa, Silva, Tevez, Di Maria, Sanchez, Muller, Reus etc. A good argument for Neymar IMO would include his great NT form and in relation to Gotze, greater importance for club as argued by @Puck Or do you believe that Neymar is the more skilled/gifted player?
@JamesBH11, Gotze & Neymar (plus Hazard) are all around the same age (22,23). All three already had their breakthrough seasons at 'lesser' clubs... Dortmund, Santos & Lille. Gotze and Neymar moved to big clubs at the same time (Bayern and Barca), both of them had so-so debut seasons due to injuries and off field issues for Neymar and injuries and too much positional rotation for Gotze. Both have had equally great starts to their sophomore seasons. I don't see exactly what Gotze has to prove, unless you can enlighten me. In my opinion, it is Neymar who has to prove he is far ahead of his peers (Gotze, Hazard perhaps Bale too) and in the bracket of players behind Messi & Ronaldo...(Robben, Ibra, Suarez). Arguably even the sub group behind this group that has the likes of Aguero, Costa, Silva, Tevez, Di Maria, Sanchez, Muller, Reus etc. A good argument for Neymar IMO would include his great NT form and in relation to Gotze, greater importance for club as argued by @Puck Or do you believe that Neymar is the more skilled/gifted player?