2014 Season Roster Thread

Yeah, lets gut the team and trade all our draft picks. Lets go sign a bunch of new bench players that will be better than finlay, meram, tchani, francis, etc. Those guys dont even deserve to be on our bench. We can sign 14 Diskeruds right? This was a horrid season, only third place!!! Fire GB. Throw precourt out of the league. We need to start from scratch.

/rant

 

Skeleton Crew. I get what you are saying about truly game changing quality players. And yes it would be great to be able to have that at every position.
BUT
This is the MLS and there is a very restrictive salary cap. $3.2 million for 40 players is not a lot of money for real quality soccer players. On average that is $80k per player. A MLS team needs squad players.
Here is a scenario. The Crew get there top 11 quality players at an average of the salary cap hit for the 4 players you mentioned, which is $235k per player or $2.585 million. This leaves $615k for the next 29 players or $21k per player which is below the league minimum. That is not going to work.

Even if you paid your 29 other players league minimum for $45k that would take $1.9 million of the $3.2 million. Which would leave $118k per player for your starting 11. That is squad level paid players.

Now I will continue with a best future case where the CBA increases the cap to $5 million. That would allow for the rest of 29 players to get paid an average of $83k which is not bad at all. This is my hope for the MLS for next year. $5 million salary cap, 5 DP's (Int'l DP cost $400k against the cap and US/Canadian cost $300k, plus the whole young DP thing.) I think that will bring a whole new overall quality to the league.

 

There is a third way. Do what you can to improve every position on the team. There is a glaring need at forward, that's really it. Everywhere else we have people who are at least MLS serviceable starting quality. A lot of you think right back is a glaring need as well, I'm actually okay with Jimenez pencilled in there.

If Pipa's gone, then that is one other must-fill hole. Other than that, you go and get whoever you can to improve whatever position you can. You don't gut the team and start over, but no one's position should be safe. That being said Skeleton's list are the four who would be hardest to improve upon. I'm not even sure I'd put Trapp on that list, unless you're looking at future potential, though he did get high praise from Henry.

 

How many game changing quality players did we have in 2008? I would say one.

 

I would love to have a field full of "lynchpins." Despite our wishes we are not a super club with league best players at every position. We never will be. Look at the Revs with Davies, Soares, Rowe, Caldwell, etc in their lineup. Squad players that are excelling in the team and helping support the few lynchpins they do have.

I thought Tchani was the best player on the team all season and look forward to him continuing to improve.

I hope Finlay's year was the start of something and not a tRR flash in the pan. Certainly no reason to give up him. A breakout season can't be a breakout season unless it gets followed up on.

This team was a solid playoff team as is, despite some very glaring holes. I would think that if we trotted out the exact same roster we would improve. It took some time for 3G to find a groove. But we have already improved the roster some.

We have a roster full of young guys with current MLS level talent and plenty of upside. We need to build around that. That is the way forward for a small market team and a way we can compete for the next several years.

 

Roster size is 30 with the cap applying to the 20 highest paid (excluding 2 homegrowns).

 

Just what I was going to say. There are so many things wrong with his post. DP's, allocation money, and HG signings kinda change the "what you can pay" a player.

 

Yes, you're technically right, but you get the point he was making. We can't pay 30 guys $750,00 a year like Pipa. We can't pay 11 guys that either. Allocation money or retention funds or whatever else you can think of.

Skeleton Crew's original post said guys like Finlay, Tchani, and Francis weren't worth holding on to, which is laughable.

 

Marshall was a game changer in 2008. But your point is well taken. Of course, when one of your game changers is THE game changer, it makes things a bit different.

 

Silliness all around. Gut the team? Ridiculous. Where to begin?

1) FinlAy. If you can't get the name right, Skeleton, what can I say. And your thoughts go down from there. Finlay was WAY better this year than any year Robbie ever had. Not only that, it was the best year for a pure winger/outside mid in Crew history.

---Only wide mid to ever hit 10+ goals in a year. Only other one who comes close is Cunningham with 12 in 1999. Stern and McBride up top, Jeff was out wide a lot that year. But he was also up top a lot. His 29 points (11 G, 7 A) are also the best ever for a wide mid. Again, Jeff had 29 in 1999 (12 G, 5 A) but played a lot of forward. Next best?

Oh, and by the way, you can almost count on one hand the number of players with better seasons that Finaly's 29 point year this year: McBride in 1996 (37 pts, 17 G, 3 A), John in 1998 (57 pts, 26 G, 5 A) and 1999 (38 pts, 18 G, 2 A), Dante Washington in 2000 (39 pts, 15 G, 9 A), Cunningham in 2001 (33 pts, 10 G, 13 A) and 2002 (37 pts, 16 G, 5 A), Perez in 2001 (31 pts, 8 G, 15 A), Schelotto 2008 (33 pts, 7 G, 9 A), Higuain 2013 (31 pts, 11 G, 9 A), Oduro 2013 (30 pts, 13 G, 4 A). And most of those guys got some from the spot, Finlay didn't have a one.

Among pure midfielders, it is the top point season in Crew history. Heck, 20 point seasons are rare for Crew mids. Paz had 22 in 1996, and he played a lot of forward. Farrell in 1998 had 20 (5 G, 10 A). Warzycha had 25 in 2000 (6 G, 13 A). Pelusa's 31 in 2001 has already been mentioned. Mais had 21 in 2001 (8 G, 5 A). Cunningham did it several times, but he played up top a lot. Guille did it every year he was here, but he played as a 2nd forward a lot as well. Gaven had 20 in 2012 (9 G, 2 A) but also played some as a 2nd striker. Rogers' best year was 15 pts, Finlay nearly doubled that production. And after only 1 year as a starter. He'll get better. 20 pts years for wide players are rare, and Finlay nearly had 30. But all of this talk brings us to:

2) Meram. Who also had a 20 pt year playing primarily as a wide mid (8 G, 4 A). Yes, he certainly has holes. But that's a productive year, and he improved greatly under 3G's and Wolff's tutelage. He's well worth bringing back. Let's see if he makes another jump. Speaking of making a jump:

3) Tchani. Yes, he still has holes as well, but he had huge growth as a player. I loved the fact he wouldn't back down from Jones, and he finally got a goal for us as well. Man, if he can become even moderately threatening (either in the air or with a shot) we'll really have something. Well worth bringing back. Speaking of worth bringing back:

4) Francis. Again, young player, with some holes in terms of keeping his head and tactical discipline, but top notch service from the LB spot (leading all MLS LBs in assists, I believe) and good enough to make Costa Rica's WC team. He'll get better, and well worth bringing back. Hopefully we'll be penciling him in at LB for quite a few years to come. Speaking of penciling in....

5) Pogatetz. I have no idea why we didn't see him more, but I doubt we went and got him for nothing. He's got EPL experience, and will give us some badly needed steel in the middle.

By my count, that's 9 we need to retain, for certain. Maybe not a team of Keanes and Henrys and LDs, to be sure, but guys who are proven productive at MLS level (Meram) or above (Pogatetz). Some guys who are at MLS all-star level, if not quite best XI (Higuain, Parkhurst) or who are in the conversation (Francis, Clark) or who could be with another jump in development (Trapp, Tchani, Finlay).

Not only that, Kamara did pretty well in England before getting injured, and is a better player than you give him credit for. Certainly a big upgrade over what we have. Gall is scoring and assisting goals for the U20s and being intrusted with taking late game PKs. Saeid looks like good depth, and very skilled, at a minimum. Swanson shows the HG pipeline is still going. And we have some nice squad players who are pretty useful as well: Jimenez, Anor, Williams, Gehrig, and yes, even Tyson Wahl. We may lose some of those guys, but no more than 1-2.

I'm with 3G on this one, this isn't a squad you gut, it is one you let grow and develop. Supplement with a vet or two, maybe go after 1 more impact guy.

 

4.5
Guillermo
Gaven
Marshall
Hesmer
.5 Hejduk (not the most gifted but the energy level puts him on the list)


To the other disagreeable people....

Sure, I respect your opinions.
Disagree though.

FinLAY had a good season. I never said he didnt. I made the comparison to a 2008 Robbie Rogers season.

*sidenote: its the same 3 players everyone is bringing up. Meram. FinLAY. Tchaini.
If you want your team built around those players then Kudos we are not going to be very good.
If you want your team built around the 4 I mentioned, Kudos, we are not going to be very good but will be better off around that core than your other 3.

Sheesh. How many that responded had a kneejerk reaction? OMG HE SAID gut the Team!!!! I better stick up for these squad players...

What is ridiculous is the Crew Bias that is going on. FinLAY, Tchaini, Meram wouldnt even see the field on more than half of the other teams (taking in to consideration for injuries/subs etc)
Not a single one of you arguing for these players...argued for these players prior to this year. I can vault you all if need be. They are squad players...by definition alone they can be replaced fairly easily. SO.
Gut them. All of them.

 

Crap so very true. I will have to recalculate but the point remains that it is hard to build or pay for really high quality players with the MLS salary cap being so low. I am all for a general pay increase around the league. I mean look at how the MLS rates against other leagues around the world in this recent article. #22. That is incredibly weak.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-England-earning-average-2-3million-year.html

 

I don't mind having a different opinion but I find it interesting that you state your opinion on Finlay, Tchani, and Meram as fact. Finlay averaged 400 mins a year the last 2 seasons. He has developed into a nice two way player. Compare him to some of the other wingers in MLS and I say he fits right in. I also bet he fits in at a nice price. I have already said I don't think Meram is a starter or should be counted on as one. Tchani is borderline for me. All these players improved under Gregg and may continue to do so.

I also don't know why people have had to say they were all great players before the start of the season. New information has presented itself to change peoples minds. Not sure why that is a requirement for whether or not these players should stay.

The core in my opinion should be: Clark, Parkhurst, Pogatetz (willing to bet on him), Francis, Trapp, Higauin, Finlay. Add 4 dynamic starters

 

Outside of GBS none of those players would not have made a difference on this team if it was not for the other players on the field doing their roles as well so I would not call them game changers. They were all great pieces but not game changers. Would could not have rode the back of Chad or Eddie to get thru the playoffs.

 

Yes, please continue...

 

Just curious do you really think Finlay is that much worse than Lamar Neagle or Brad Evans; Baggio Husidic or Stefan Ishizaki? Because that is the comparison not Obafemi Martins or Clint Dempsey; Landon Donovan or Robbie Keane I think everyone agrees we need upgrades in terms of our marquee players to win the cup. So yes Finlay shouldn't be a marquee player he should be a solid role player; but you change out the players that have played right wing for Seattle and LA in the playoffs and plug in Finlay and I really don't think they lose anything at all. So is that your position? That if some of the best players from other teams were put on the Crew a player like Finlay would still drag us down?

 

Tchani and Finlay might not be game-changers or elite, but they are also younger than most of those type of players in MLS. There are only 3 players with more goals than Finlay who are younger- Plata, Torres, and Zardes. Are any of those the type of top players that we need? Plata is the closest to a proven player in MLS. Torres and Zardes have had 1 good year, same as Finlay.

MLS is built on parity, I'm sure you could pick the top 4 talented players from any team and say the same thing. It's what happens with a salary cap and allocations to the worst teams from previous seasons.

I don't think you gut them, but keep developing to see if they will get there. I think Gggg is looking bigger picture here. He seems to want a reputation where players can go to be developed and a place where players want to go. There is nothing wrong with that approach especially for a market like ours.

I don't see a single position on our roster that couldn't be upgraded. This doesn't mean we gut the team though. Actually, I think there is someone on another team that has a player better in every single position except one, and you didn't even name them: Francis. He might be the best LB in the league and you didn't even want to protect him? Doesn't make sense. Just because we don't have the top player in each spot doesn't mean we blow the whole thing up.

 

2008 Columbus Crew (just looking at the best XI)
4 Game-Changers (players you expect to have great games every time they step on the field)
1. Guillermo
2. Marshall
3. Gaven
4. Hejduk (for both his play and leadership)

4 Solid Starters (players you expect to be good, occasionally great, occasionally mediocre)
1. Padula
2. Carroll
3. Rogers
4. Hesmer

3 Role Players (players who do well in the system, occasionally surprise you with a good game, usually game managers)
1. Moreno
2. O'Rourke
3. Evans

2015 Columbus Crew (looking at a possible XI)
5 Game-Changers
1. Clark
2. Pogatetz (for what we're paying the guy and what we expect, he should fall into this category)
3. Parkhurst
4. Higuain
5. Kamara
3 Solid Starters
1. Francis
2. Trapp
3. Finlay
3 Role Players
1. Williams/Jimenez
2. Tchani (yes, he had a good year, but still had his fair share of poor performances down the stretch (especially leg 1 vs NE))
3. Meram (hot and cold)

Really if you look at the differences between the two teams, there aren't a ton in terms of game-changing players vs. role players. The quality of MLS has certainly improved and you need fewer role players in the team, but not all XI players are able to walk into every MLS team and start.

2014 Seattle Sounders (XI)
4 Game Changers
1. Marshall
2. Alonso
3. Dempsey
4. Martins
4 Solid Starters
1. Yedlin
2. Evans
3. Pineda
4. Pappa
3 Role Players
1. Gonzalez
2. Frei
3. Scott

2008 Columbus Crew XI: 4 Game Changers, 4 Solid Starters, 3 Role Players
2015 Columbus Crew XI: 5 Game Changers, 3 Solid Starters, 3 Role Players (as of now)
2014 Seattle Sounders XI: 4 Game Changers, 4 Solid Starters, 3 Role Players

With the Pogatetz/Kamara additions, we're really not far behind. We need fewer role players since our game-changers aren't at the Dempsey/Martins level, but we have plenty of quality going into next season. We just need to improve a couple areas (RB, Wing, Striker) and we'll be very strong.

 

Glad to see I am not drinking alone before the US game.

 

lol. We=Would and thanks for reminding me to set my DVR

 

Agreed.

People above are being very liberal on the usage of the term "game changer". Every championship team has players who are typically role players who play above and beyond their ability for the season.

 

Someone's been drinking too much Crewlaide.

 

I agree we need a upgrade at Rb but we need some younger CB as well. While we could use another outside mid upgrade we will be ok without one but we with out a doubt need a quality Striker.


Here is my breakdown
Strikers:
30 Kamara
31 Areieta
24 Schoenfeld

Cut(22) Bedell and get a good striker who is not in his 30s

Gk- 28 Clark
25 Lampson

I wouldn't mind seeing us add another younger GK for the future

Midfield :
29 Higuain
24 Finlay
25 Meram - need to resign him
25 Jiminez
26 Anor - must resign him or get another left foot who can help at LB. I like him we should resign him

25 -Tchani
21 - Trapp
19 -Gall- loan him or give him some PT
23 -Speas - cut
24 -George- needs to play CB if he can't you cut him. Let him play CB for dayton

17 Swanson- if you could loan him to dayton while he is in school great if not that's ok hopefully he can still play for Crew Jrs
31 Viana -cut
29-Paladini -cut
22-Baiden -loan
23-Saeid -hopefully he will do well

Deffenders:

31-Pogatez- should start and succeed
30-Parkhurst
30-Wahl- back up only if we can find a young left footed CB then I would cut Wahl

24-Wiet- at 5"11 if he hasn't impressed by now cut him. I've never seen him so I can't say

26-Gehrig- resign him he is versatile and hustles

23-Sweat- loan
23-Barson- loan or cut . I'm not sold on him but is still young

26-Williams- IS NOT A RB!!! If he can't play CB then cut him

24-Francis

 

Let's just say we disagree, but let's hone in on the Rogers comparison from 2008:

Finlay 2014: 11 goals, 7 assists = 29 points
Rogers 2008: 6 goals, 3 assists = 15 points

That isn't even close. If Finlay had GBS feeding him, he'd have been even better this year. A 29 point year from a winger is a MONSTER year. Best in Crew history for a pure mid/wing. Robbie never came close to that.

And, for future reference:

Robbie 2007: 3 G, 1 A = 7 points (partial season)
Robbie 2009: 1 G, 5 A = 7 points
Robbie 2010: 1 G, 0 A = 2 points
Robbie 2011: 2 G, 7 A = 11 points

Robbie had 13 goals in 4.5 years with the Crew, Finlay had 11 in his first year as a starter. Robbie had 16 assists in those samw 4.5 years (7 in the last one), Finlay had 7 last year alone.

Robbie constantly would get the ball and run away from goal towards the corner when he was behind a defense, and when he had the opportunity to get to the corner and cross, he'd try to tuck inside and lose the ball. He'd shoot when he should have passed, and passed when he should have shot. He made the least of the most promising opportunities so often it was maddening.

Finlay doesn't do that sort of thing nearly as often. He's a better player right now than Robbie ever was as a midfielder.

Of course you don't build the team around Tchani, Finlay, Meram, Francis, and Pogatetz. As you said, you build around Higuain, Parkhurst, Clark, and Trapp. But Pogatetz is a quality international caliber player, and Finlay and Francis are borderline all-stars right now, and Tchani isn't very far behind. They all made big jumps under 3 G. Those are players you keep.