OK if you want to extend more in 2006 ( counted last 7 as most recent) ... that became W1 D5 L2 in 8 total Still they could hardly beat Chelea ,,, and guess what Messi ONLY GOT 1 ass in those 7games
That's an interesting discussion - I suppose the counter view is that the players who are more 'monopolozing/central' to a teams play could get underappreciated if they just turn in their normal performance rather than a sensational one, but it'd probably be a long debate. Should a player that is so focal to a team, that makes it tick always get bonus points for that or should a player that doesn't link things together as well but as you say performs his role to great effect be rated higher? Hard call maybe, and perhaps some will see the question slightly differently even without knowing they/we are considering it. On Vieira vs Zidane in that game, I'd have to re-watch it but I think France Football did give Vieira a higher rating in that one. To me, his prime was a few years earlier at Arsenal but his grades from FF for that World Cup are very good generally and babaorum has praised his tournament too. I remember he was a key player for them and he did make the all-star squad IIRC. The other question is how much does the importance of a goal weigh when discussing the quality of a performance I suppose. I wouldn't say not at all, but I wouldn't say a player shouldn't be credited for great play when his team leads comfortably either (if he still plays excellently or scores a great goal in that scenario, he does). I stick by what I said before although at 92 minutes it was probably unlikely Spain would get the goal vs France, but of course they'd be trying their best and going gung-ho for that if they could get half a chance to do so.
We all kind of know the answer to this one. You may be the best DM there has ever existed on the planet or even a GK that's top 5 of all times, a player like Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo will still get World player of the year on an off year ahead of said player because they score goals. The world player of the year voting is our best proof that this type of sentiment does occur. That's another silly thing it's done all over. I think goals are random events that happen off created chances, so the more chances you create the more goals you'll score. Proof of that is that our top scorers in the world are also the leading finishers. Player one creates 10 chances scores no goals Player two creates 2 chances scores 1 goal Who had the better game? I would say just off that, player 1 had a better game. But I also know that ratings wise most would say the striker with almost no chances was more opportunistic and made them count, hence having a better game. But I don't think being opportunistic is a skill... It's more of a chance thing.
Thanks for the thoughts Guigs mate! I knew we'd find a point of agreement sooner or later and here it is already as I also tend to value those who fashion chances a bit higher than those who finish them probably, although expert finishing and positioning is still a great asset and it could be the great chance creator in a particular game gets a chance to score himself and fluffs it or something. I guess the difference between our preferences is I want to cram in as many of the chance creators as possible and have a team that can create chances aplenty between them with central midfielders running beyond the ball, dribbling it forwards etc. Wheras you probably prefer the chance creators to be attackers (Neymar for example) and hate the centre mids to run beyond the ball too much or be too biased towards attacking play as you value the ability of a team not to give up chances. It doesn't mean one approach is wrong and one is right though I admit and different coaches will view things differently (midfielders can't be instructed to both run beyond the ball and stay behind it 100%). But yeah we agree that those players that individually or collectively create openings are very valuable I think. In your example, I suppose player one's chances of MOTM are increased if he created the chance player two scores from. But while players will obviously enjoy playing great and hate the opposite, I guess us fans are the ones who discuss the men of the match etc and mostly the players just want to win the game (and possibly be part of an entertaining team but as you say that's debateable).
At WC2006, Vieira and Makelele were both UNSUNG hero behind Zidane ... Vieira got 2goals+2ass/4games up to QF (not bad for a CM) Makelele was clear teh best DM in that WC06 (2nd was Gatusso )
In other news it has been revealed today that the world's fastest men are also the best runners and that the world's smartest men are also the most intelligent