I have every business being here. Im not British either. Its not because I disagree with you, its because you are WRONG to dismiss Mexico in the manner that you did. Simple as that. Thats not a matter of opinion, thats fact.
I agree ... not really sure we have the personnel. But I like that we are trying. It took almost 2 years to find the owner for the 10 who appears to be Oscar if all goes well. Dunga found his striker (Fabiano) and CM (Melo) in less than 2 years to the WC if I am not mistaken. I think they came in at the end of 08. So we could still have some surprises. I think at CB we will be good with Silva and Dede or even Luiz. Marcelo is solid on the left. At RB Dani Alves will still be a good option. . Maybe Rafael learns and matures from this. Although I don't think that kid is that bright. I wonder if Luiz could be converted as a RB. The CM area is lacking. I wish we had someone like Yaya Toure. He is a beast. But I think we'll figure this position out in time. I am less optimistic about the striker. I just don't see anyone on the radar at this point. Damn you Pato for not turning out the player you should have been. That means more scoring responsibility for Neymar and whoever is on the right.
Of course the Brazilian defense won't be the same but neither will the opponents' attackers. Just saying that "playing well yet making a few screw ups" is not enough. In the last World Cup Brazil's defence was just fine and probably will be in 2014 as well. But the young crop of defs have A LOT to learn and just in the way of staying focused - which obv is a key to defence - so has the whole (young) team. The more proven NT members are pros enough to handle this, staying focused in high pressure and performing in personal top level.
I'm for Felipao. He has the experience, temperament, abilities, strategic know-how, and he has been there before. One of the biggest problems with Dunga was his lack of experience and it showed. I am also for Muricy. But............. for now we are stuck with Mano in case as I said, we loose Wednesday.
Vanderlei Luxemburgo, who coached Brazil from September 1998 to the summer of 2000 (and who was fired because of an Olympic failure) spoke in Mano’s deense. He said, “Mano lost, and so did I, and so did Zagallo, amongst others. What must be analyzed is the work. If it is understood the renovation is underway, he must stay. He is in charge of the group; he knows all the athletes. If change happens, everything starts from zero.” Tite, current Corinthians manager, and my personal pick to replace Mano, said: “I will do everything I can for Mano. He has my support. Coaches aren’t magicians. Let’s allow Mano develop his work.” Tite also said that it’s part of Brazil’s culture to prematurely judge coaches, and alluded that a managing staff’s work must be seen with long-term results. Luis Felipe Scolari, as far as I’ve read, has made no statements after the game w/ Mexico. But SPFC brass has openly called for Scolari to replace Mano. I would assume Palmeiras wants Scolari to stay at the academia. But Scolari has previously stated he would like to take over A national team after his contract w/ Palmeiras ends in December 2012. Will it be Brazil? Finally, there is Muricy Ramalho. CBF wanted him to replace Dunga, but Muricy refused because he was under contract w/ Fluminense. Now, Santos’ brass has revealed that there is a very heavy fine to be paid if Muricy leaves Santos for the national team – and that CBF would have to pay that fine to Santos. In any case, I agree that firing Mano may not be the best option. The team hasn’t functioned all that well, although it has won games and it has begun to create an identity, a playing style. But what if the team plays horribly against Sweden and loses? What then? Let’s suppose Brazil plays well and wins, and begins to build a string of wins. Then comes the Confeds, and we’re humiliated at home. That’s 1 year before the World Cup. What will happen? If pressure to fire Mano is high now, what would it be like if he loses the Confeds at home? Had Mano won gold, a defeat at the Confeds would arguably be forgivable. But he’s lost a lot of political capital. So if he is fired, will the replacement build on Mano’s system and work or start from scratch? I would like Tite, because he’s built an amazing TEAM w/ Corinthians, but that takes time. And what if Tite’s early results are mostly losses?
Under Mano, we have not beat one single solitary team ranked in the top 20 of the FIFA list. We have lost the Copa America and now we have lost the Olympics. And it is not like we do not have the players. A change needs to be made to put our National team back in the forefront, and that change is a new coach. The longer we wait, the harder it will be for the new transitional coach. But it apperas that CBF is backing up Mano, for now anyway, especially in their last defense of Rafael. Tite is a very interesting pick.
I think when we talk about putting "almost there" teams to be the number one, a simple change of coach is enough. One sits on top because of combination of many things: the right coach, the crop of true quality players peaking simultaneously, etc. A change of coach could be a part of change, but like someone said, coaches are not magicians. Brazil has quality players now, but some of the rivals simply have better squads so it's tough anyway.
The Copa Am was a huge fracasso. I might be wrong, but I seem to remember they were very lucky not to be eliminated early in the group stage. It took Fred to come off the bench to score a very late goal against a Paraguay team that deserved to win. That whole tourney to me was a disaster.
Some good points. Possession style is good in theory but you need top notch defenders. Mano's team only had one... Felipao's system was best IMO. Parreira's was best defensively but the attack did suffer. Romario & Bebeto seemed isolated a lot. Dunga's system fell apart after Elano was injured, and IMO Kaka shouldn't have been in that team.
Without Kaka' there was no counter attack. He still had 3 assists in the tournament. There was no replacement for Kaka' in Dunga's system.
I dunno. Chelsea did fairly poorly in EPL (finishing 6th) and in Champions League they of course won, but it's not like changing a coach has that sort of effect too often. More like, things happen. Also: I'm not against a change of coach, just saying it takes more. Although when any one tournament is considered, many teams can win it - but AFAIK Brazil wants to be the best, not just win the World Cup like Chelsea - and I'm not trying to discredit Chelsea of their deserved CL win, just saying that I think it's fair when most of the people don't consider them the best club in the world today even though they won the toughest competition.
If I remember correctly Kaka wasn't a 100% and he wasn't getting playing time at his club at the time. I know he's capable but he just didn't have the conditions fot that WC tourny
Yes he wasn't 100%. But once again, there was no substitute for Kaka' in Dunga's system. Not on the bench and not anywhere. The expectation was that Kaka' would improve with every game we could win with him at 80-90%. He did come within inches of scoring twice against Holland in the QF. Sometimes you have to roll the dice. In 02 neither Ronaldo nor Rivaldo were 100%. Specially Ronaldo who at best by the Germany game was at 80-85%. But we ended up winning it.
lol.. everybody was shouting for Neymar and Ganso's inclusion, o man how far this team have come. Now people want Ganso gone aha
Winning a tournament is hard. So many things have to go your way. And honestly, for Brazil, they did, until the Mexico final lol.
Agreed. That said: winning Olympics is very different from winning the World Cup in a way that nations put their best men in WC, not in Olympics. Many things have to go right, but also it's a matter of you making them right yourself, not many stars happening to be in right position in the sky. Although a little luck is always mandatory to win anything. As for "things looked great for Brazil until they lost" I dunno, I mean yeah, but even in the matches they won, some cracks were evident. Dunno how Mexico looked in general, didn't watch all their matches. I mean like did Mexico play like the eventual champions from the first match, did they have that look, I dunno. But I'm saying I'm not sure Brazil did either.
Well, I agree that coaches have to be given time to work or else it's chaos - one loss and you're out. I was thrilled that Parreira and Dunga were given that time. In the end they made costly mistakes (some of which have been mentioned here for Dunga) but they earned the right to go to the World Cup and take what they had built. I always advocate for giving coaches a full 4 years to work with if they have something to show for it. That's the key. I don't think Mano has anything to show for it. I get that he wants a 4-3-3 but what work has he done to make that system viable? When we were eliminated by Paraguay we missed every penalty kick we took. We gave up goals in a predictable fashion. When Mexico beat us they did it the way we expected them to. There's no indication Mano is fixing the problems he needs to fix as far as I can tell. I like Scolari as a short-term solution because of his discipliinarian nature and success with formations besides the typical Brazilian 4-4-2 but I think Ivo's statement that "it becomes complicated" if Brazil loses to Sweden is a sign that it might still be too early to do something. What if a short-term guy comes in now? They get Confed Cup, october and Novemeber friendlies this year... lots more games than Scolari did pre-2002. In one way that's positive but what if he loses the wrong game along the line? Suddenly we're in a panic again and with the "get rid of him" mentality in full effect. Scolari got 5 0r 6 WC qualifying games last time he took over on short notice and lost at least one of those. It's not an easy decision for sure. On the one hand I agree with the give him time mentality, it's the rigth long-term approach to the national team. On the other hand I don't think Mano has shown enough positive signs, whereas Dunga did. And then again... if you do give him the axe it suddenly becomes very volatile for the successor as well unless the timing is just right or the results are there every single game. Bottom line... even I think it's too early to fire Mano.
Scolari lost his very first game (an away match at Uruguay). But there were positives from that match: the 3-5-2 system was implemented for the first time and the team fought to the end. Come September 5, 2001, Brazil scored early on in Buenos Aires and nearly got a second goal before Marcelo Bielsa's team took over and scored two goals. It was a very tough win against Paraguay in Porto Alegre that breathed life into the NT at that time. I agree that a manager needs time. But Mano has shown so little. Does the man even believe in defense? Scolari's NT had good defense - after all, he employed 3 zagueiros - and we all saw that Corinthians' zaga during the 2012 Libertadores was a veritable Great Wall of The Periferia (OK I couldn't resist). This is why I like Tite, and why he deserves a chance. Note guys that Scolari, Mano, and Tite are all gaúchos, but only Scolari and Tite talk, act, and coach like it.