2009 Singapore Football Thread

Personally, i don't want to see a foreign side win the league, it would kind of put a dampener on a Singapore league being won by an 'outsider'. But i also don't want to see them trump up the table either.

They have to offer something. After about 3 season's, we will see what hte outcome was. But if they can be top 5 or top half then good. Bottom half, would show its a wrong move.

 

'to offer something' - any team will just have to aim for the win and league title, and that's in including the foreign teams.

Just like a 'foreign' team Singapore winning the 1994 Malaysia Semi-Pro League and Malaysia Cup. Singapore was the favourite team to beat, and the gate collection in Kallang is the more than 50% of FAM's total collection. Yes! Kallang roar contributed more than all the other Malaysian state's collection COMBINED!
But the M-League's viewership & collection went downhill after Singapore left.

to fear a foreign team winning the title equate fearing a foreigner playing in your team.(or your opponent's team)

just xenophobia at work...

 

do you mean 'exculde'?
or was it really not allowed ?

 

Is this accurate - do you have figures to demonstrate.
Just asking as my experience, which does not include the year mentioned, leaves me to question the numbers.

For example - I did spend some time in Singapore in 89, seeing them play Kelantan at home (14,000), then travelling on the supporters' bus to KL (8000) and finally seeing KL at Johor's Larkin Stadium (5000) - so clearly the Singaporeans were not adding 50% of the gates that season.

In two days in March 1996 (after Singapore had left Malay football, but before the decline set in), I saw 20,000 at Shah Alam, Selangor, and 18,000 at Kedah.

 

Yes the figures are correct for 1994, and 1993 are close.
These figures are released by the FAM's annual report.(obviously only they can)
They are also published in the newspaper then (my source), and also use
extensively by FAS to defend their decision to leave the Malaysian Semi-Pro
League and Malaysia Cup, much to Singapore fan's protest.
If you check the newspaper archive probably in late '94 to Feb '95,
you should find it.


Singapore top the gate collection (more than 50%)
and Selangor is 2nd (at about 25%)
and the rest of the collection are from the other 12 teams.

Under the agreement to participate, Singapore are to pay 25% levy of the gate collection to FAM.
and the home and away team are to split certain percentage of the collection
which I cannot recall.

Every team then like to play in Singapore. because regardless whether
they win or lost, they will take back alot of money for their club.
Yes you can say that Kallang Roar built their stadium and the league.

Singapore is always on the losing end.
While we charge S$5-$8 per match, the Malaysian charge like RM3-RM5 for the ticket.
as you can see, there's not much we can gain from their gate collection.
especially with the conversion rate.
A full house of average 60,000 is equivalent of 180,000 in Malaysia context
On low profile fame, at least 25,000 fans are at Kallang.
(note* during those time, National Stadium always max out beyond it's
capacity of 55,000. the highest ever recorded was 85,000 for the
Singapore vs Selangor clash, even the stairway was filled,
it's only in the later years the police imposed a max capacity of 55,000)
In Malaysia, with the exception of Selangor, the other state team doesn't come close.

and for the 1995 season. FAM imposed a 50% of the gate collection, up from 25%.
They are clearly opportunistic, especially after Singapore win the 1994 doubles.
and with 55,000 Singapore fans travelled to Shah Alam for the finals.
(That's the size of full capacity Kallang Roar!!)

That was the year Singapore decided to quit Malaysian League.
other reason is the coruption scandals.
(which tarnished the achievement of the '94 team, even now I wonder whether
we are in the league only for their profiteering.
With the reputation of their country, you hardly suspect.
You almost immediately experience it the moment you hit their custom at the causeway)

It was fully supported by the Singapore government.
(for obvious reason, with so much money out flowing into Malaysia,
it's never wise for any government)

As much as we lost the fanatic fever of those times.
But I think it's defintely a wise decision to leave then.
S-League have developed itself in it's own way and gain younger fans in
it's own rights.
(even now there's still 2 school of fans. the Pre-94 & Post-94)

It was also listed as one of the Top10 league in Asia
(as announced by AFC, don't ask me leohoenig, I'm sure even FAS is surprised)
Ironically, the only other foreign team in Malaysian League is now playing
in the S-League.
(though it's was not the same formation, Brunei NT was playing then)

 

Fair enough - I thought you were referring to average crowds, but taking are a different matter; with the Singapore matches costing more than Malay ones. The prices for the three matches I mentioned were S$8, and RM10 - but I certainly had top price in Malaysia, whereas S$8 may not have been the highest price.

I knew nothing of the FAM levy on tickets sold. I imagine the FAS does not do this with the S-League, as the income would be so small, and surely Brunei will pay enough to join in, by their contribution to expenses.

As for the top ten leagues, I would have thought the AFC had defined these by places in the Asian Champions League

Countries with four teams - China, Japan, South Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia (5)
Country with three teams - UAE
Countries with two teams - Qatar, Australia, Uzbekistan (3)
Country with one team - Indonesia
- that is ten countries - surely they are the top ten leagues?

Play off countries - Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, India and UAE
- so one would think Thailand, Singapore and India are 11-13 (not in a specific order)
Each of Thailand, Singapore and India has one team in the AFC Cup as well as one in the Champions qualifyers, and for some reason, Uzbekistan also has one team in the AFC Cup.

Lebanon, are the only country with three teams in the AFC Cup - so I place them as 14th.

The other 11 countries in the AFC Cup (supposedly 15-25) all have two teams
Bahrain, Yemen, Oman, Iraq, Kuwait, Syria, Jordan, Maldives, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Viet nam

There are 11 countries with one club each in the President's Cup
Takikistan, Nepal, Taipai, Pakistan, Turkmanistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Kyrgyzstan, Myanmar, Cambodia, Bhutan

leaving the following out in the cold - Palestine, Guam, Macau, Mongolia, North Korea, Afghanistan, Laos, Brunei, the Philippines, and Timor Leste.

I went to two matches in the Macau League - size of stadium 16,000 - size of crowd 16!

 

For matches in big club like Selangor, KL, Pahang perhaps they charge higher.
but for smaller state club the price are minimum.
during the semi-finals of MCup, the ticket in Kallang goes up to $12 for grandstand.


Perhaps the 'Top-10' claims was distorted by various parties.
looking at the pathetic viewership, I'm still surprised.
perhaps they use others means of measurement rather than what we fans
perceive.

This are the news report that you can refer to.

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfriendly/0,4139,137346,00.html

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfootball/news/newsid=111621.html

'The 10 leagues are Australia, Japan, China, South Korea, Singapore, India, Iran, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.'

there's anther report then, which detailed how the score was given.
of which I couldn't find. I'm sure it's still on the web if you try harder.

 

Singapore are ranked 11th according to the AFC Ranking Assessment that was carried out to see who was 'fit' to play in the Champions League, although they did score more points than Qatar who were 10th. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Champions_League#Current

With regard to my 'fear' of a foreign side winning the league. It's not that i am scared of this happening, but if DPMM did win the league, then what does this really say for teams from Singapore? It would kill the domestic league to have an outsider as Champions. Everyone would ridicule it.

But i also don't want to see them do badly, as then it would be kind of a 'what's the point' in seeking this route when other teams in Singapore should be promoted.

 

By allowing foreign sides to enter a league, you have got to allow for the possibility that they will win it. I do not think the Malaysian League was ever ridiculed when Singapore were the champions? Would Australia suffer is the New Zealand team won the title, or USA if their title ended in Canada - or even England if Cardiff were champions?

 

Korean Super Reds almost won the S-League last year , finished second just 2 points behind SAFFC.

 

As opposed to DPMM, the Chinese, Japanese and Korean teams that have played in the S-League so far are special cases of foreign teams. I do not know of any national league that has an equivalence. As far as I understand it, these teams are 100% made up of nationals from their source country - hence being called 'foreign teams', but the teams have a set up within Singapore, and play all their home games there.

DPMM will keep its set up, registration, etc.. within Brunei

Hopefully, they will cede disciplinary matters to the FAS, avoiding the nasty problem we have in England with Cardiff and Swansea. Whenever these two teams wish to appeal against a player's punishment, the case is heard by the FAW, whereas all other teams appeal to the English FA. This gives the Welsh teams a clear advantage

 

Charity Shield Today :

Singapore "Locals" - Singapore "Foreigners" 0-2

Singapore "Locals" are basically Singapore NT.

 

The purpose of inviting the foreign team and players is to expose the local boys
to different style and standard of play.
it works both ways, if the local boys wins.. they will gain confidence and
eliminate xenophobia.
But if they lost, it's the best medicine and lessons the local boys can get.
that will spur them to greater height.
the only thing the local boys will lose is probably 'face value',
which isn't worth anything to be honest.

too bad the M-League are close-minded now.
let's see how they can improve their games.
for sure, they won't lost face, cos they will win all their titles with local boys.

 

When you say the Malaysian league is closed, I assume you mean in not allowing foreigners to play in the Malay teams, and not the fact that Singapore and Brunei no longer compete in their league.

I do not believe Brunei were pushed out of the Malaysian league, but it was down to administrative problems, and a lack of will to either solve (or ignore) them. As I do not think that either the AFC or FIFA ever placed a ban on Brunei over their adminstration, I think that the Malaysian league could have ignored the problem.

Obviously, the problems in 1994 were quite complex, and you may feel that Singapore were pushed out of Malay football, or at least would have been if they had not jumped. I will not expose my ignorance by suggesting I know half of what went on.

The 'top 10' and the other AFC scores only shows how the muddled thinking at AFC HQ gets overshadowed by the need for political decisions, and for balance between East and West. It does not say much about the S-League.

However, one thing does get to me, is the New Paper's article, and the claim for crowds in the S-League. This article was published on 30 July 2007 - by co-incidence the last time I was in Singapore. I saw 5 games on the Island in a two week period, and the officially quoted attendance figures varied between 400 and 1200. Even more to the point, every single one of these figures was a lie - with probably less than half the quoted attendance in the stadium for each match. The New Paper appears to be quoting figures that are twice what is claimed by the S-League, and the S-League are not themselves renowned for truthfulness.

 

They are valid points, but i don't think it helps the game develop amongest the fans if an 'outsider' kept winning.

Of course we want to see them do well rather than not, but i can't help but feel that they have also taken someone else's rightful spot. Surely there is a Singapore based team feeling let down right now?

But to be quite honest the pro's of DPMM entering i think out weighs the con's. And as an English born guy with no connection to Singapore, it's kind of one of the reasons why i follow the league, simply for being a bit different. And as it's not the best league in the world, then why not do something other leagues wouldn't dare do!

The next thing we need to see is an ASEAN Super League!

 

Yes, what i meant was FAM's decision to ban foreigner from playing in the their league.
It's just doesn't make sense as their reason was to give the local boys chance to improve.
How ironic is.. already I've been told by my Malaysian friends themselves that there is racial discrimination
within the state managed team.
The best player might not get to play for the state just because of his enthicity.

The New Paper are crap and full of false reports.
It's a paper for the punters.
Though I've only been to 1 or 2 regular S-League matches. like you,
I doubt their reported attendance.

I suspect S-League score high mark for the management, foreign-team participation
and potential marketbility.
In terms of standard of play and viewership, they still have a long way to go
as compared with the other 9 team.

What I really like to see in near future is the Asean League, as druryfire stated.
Singapore's market is just too small for so many teams, likewise for SEA countries
like Brunei, Philippines, Laos, Timor Leste where football is still developing.
Big countries like Indonesia could be sub divided in Sumatra, Java..etc..
It could be the 2-tier competition to the AFF Cup, which have prove to be very
popular among SEA football fans.

just to add, i'll be closing monitoring the ABL (Asean Basketball League)
starting in Sep. perhaps for once, football have something to learn from basketball

 

Pre-Season Press Conferences: Tampines Rovers & Super Reds

Made it to the final last two of the teams' pre-season press conference held at the NFA conference room at the Jalan Besar Stadium.





http://www.bolasepako.com/2009/02/last-pre-season-press-conference.html

 

Hopefully, this new playing surface will end the agony of some players who complained the "batu"(rock solid) surface of the Jalan Besar Stadium.





http://www.bolasepako.com/2009/02/its-almost-done-jalan-besar-stadium-new.html

 

Although the ultimate target is the league championship, it's equally important as well to be the early pace-setters too.

Being the team that set the momentum right from the start is so important that it could decide whether the big guns would eventually catch up and grab the prize OR the team itself able to last the whole campaign and create a surprise of its own (which is or was never the case anyway).



http://www.bolasepako.com/2009/02/wa...e-setters.html

 

Still no fixtures on the official S-League site, which is bad as they have obviously been released. The first 12 rounds are available on http://www.rsssf.com/tabless/sing09.html
DPMM will start their campaign playing the Young Lions in Singapore on February 27, followed by home games against Super Reds (March 5) and Woodlands (March 8).

 

of course Asean Super League was not proven to be successful..
because it was never been done!... duh!

S-League itself was not successful from a fan's viewership point of view.
Not in terms of overall player's standard, but it still lacks far behind from the Malaysia Cup days and AFF Championship.
You can ask any player and I'm sure it's no prize for guessing which atmosphere they like to play in.

it's the same reason why DPMM FC joins S-League as comparing
to play in their B-League.

S-League is not the best in the region, but definitely a bettern choice for them