It's been a few years with each player. Why should we expect their performances to change in the current situation? Will Allegri all of a sudden find a way to unlock each player's potential or return them to their peak? I'm very unsure of that. The players need to take responsibility but so does the overall club because they aren't the only players that have underperformed.
Almost all of which came at the very beginning of the 2018/19 season. He hasn't been the same player since his injury at the end of 2018. The dropoff in production in the last year and a half has been considerable.
Marchisio on Dybala: Marchisio: "Dybala? I think the world of Paulo. I really hope that he won't be sold, it would be a mistake, because there are few talents like him." Marchisio: "I remember his first game, the Supercoppa in China. He was on the bench, then he came in and I immediately told him: 'you stay in the box, because with the foot you you have you need to be as close as possible to the goal.'" The legend speaking truth.
I really hope Juve find a way to keep hold of him. The problem that needs to be solved is how to use him and Ronaldo at the same time without either playing as a #9. Ronaldo is more dangerous playing off a #9 and Dybala just isn't that type of player due to his stature. Dybala's best season too came when he was playing in an advanced position off a supportive #9 (Mandzukic). Neither are forwards that should be asked to track back and defend as this diminishes their strong suite (finishing) while magnifying their weakness (defending). Essentially both play the same position from opposite sides. What Juve need is a Firmino-type CF. A player that has the physical attributes to hold up the ball and bring others into the play while in attack. He also has the capacity to press high and also defend in the midfield. Allegri has tried Dybala as a trequartista and for me this has failed. Dybala just doesn't have the physical characteristics to make himself available all over the pitch. For the sake of the player, if the plan is to continue using him this way then it is better for everyone if he is sold to a big club that will play him in a partnership with a Mandzukic type. He will be back to scoring 20+ goals per season.
I would keep Dybala and bring in a new Mister. Max has not been able to find a solution with the current squad that allows Dybala to be successful. Too me a good coach finds a system that allows his best players to succeed and at the same time allows the team to succeed. Max had done a decent job of that until this year. I don't see it changing next year though, if Ramsey actually stays healthy, he could help our midfield drive forward and create more chances allowing Paulo to follow Marchisio's advice more than Max's from this season. But that would require max committing to that and letting it work itself out. I don't seee him doing that either. Those are biggest reasons I think he needs to be replaced. Pep, Klopp, Zidane or Water Carrier would all do better with this squad in the attacking half than Max has IMHO. Conte would be a mistake though.
Unreal that a coach cant figure out how to use a Dybala and Ronaldo together What a disaster a situation to be in.
Actually, he has figured out how to use Ronaldo & Dybala together. Problem is that many of you do not like the Argentine in a play maker role. He is not a prima punta and as our stats show, we need more scoring from outside the box. Dybala can relish in that role.
Really? Could have fooled me with those shit displays. Relish in a role he has been utter shit in, sure. How many more years before we see him shine in that role?
I'd have to agree here. Dybala has been played in so many roles from second striker off of Mandzukic in a pairing, winger, trequartista etc. He has only ever been productive as a pure second striker. The fact that Dybala is somewhat creative and can dribble in close quarters was a bonus. To make that his primary duty has been less than spectacular. Then to go a step beyond that and ask him to make himself available all over the field has contributed to his physical issues and loss of form. So he isn't a prima punta, but also has shown over these two years to not be very effective as a playmaker that drops into midfield. His best season by far came when playing off of Mandzukic as a second striker. The issue is that Ronaldo also likes this role from the opposite side. To coexist, they need a #9 that can hold up the ball, press high, and come back into midfield to defend. Tadic did this for Ajax which allowed Neres and Ziyech to play off him. Firmino does this for Mane and Salah. Juve could use such a player to replace Mandzukic.
Dybala has not been asked to come back and defend. He has been used as a second striker similar to Ronaldo. And he has been effective moving the ball in that role. The problem is that he needs to become a go to player, which means he has to be seeking the ball, putting himself in position to receive it from his teammates. When he has done this, he does well. But when he just puts himself lost on the pitch, he is useless. The same goes for Pjanic. If you watched Pirlo, he always got himself into the action. His off the ball movement is what put him there.
We can only go with what we have seen. In his one year strictly as a 2nd striker behind Mandzukic, Dybala had his best season. Also he has certainly been asked to defend. Against Ajax in Turin Allegri acknowledged that the plan was to have Dybala cover De Jong. He has been asked to do that vs other defensive mids. Physically this task costs him. Obviously he got hurt vs Ajax, but overall his physical condition has not been good for nearly two years. Dybala physically has not shown capable of making himself available to his team mates all over the pitch as you describe. He either gets injured, has other physical issues, or loses form. It's tempting to look at Dybala and see him as a trequartista. I thought it could work as well when Higuain arrived who is a forward that needs to be a focal point near the box which is a contrast to Mandzukic. Unless something changes, it's not been consistently effective. Worse, Dybala has regressed since the end of 2017.
He has not been the same physically since his injury. The shifting roles Max has assigned him has not helped either. Looks like he may stay now that Max is a goner. Max did his "him or me" routine one too many times it looks like, much like Conte did when he demanded the club spend more on transfers. The Club has a plan. The manger has a role and it is NOT to make the plan. if the manager can't fit into the Club's plan then he needs to go.
It will be interesting to see how this all turns out. What was pretty clear was that this team needed a new direction whether in the form of a big roster turnover or new manager. It's probably tougher for Juve to revolutionize the squad with how much they are paying Ronaldo. Plus, I don't think this Juve need more than 2-3 quality squad changes (a CM plus Ramsey, replacement for Chiellini). The talent is there. It's a matter of keeping them healthy, motivated, and in form when it matters most.
Dybala is not going to replace Ronaldo. So either he realizes that and takes a role that is meant for him or he sits on the bench. How is it that Messi has been able to be a play maker while sharing the pitch with two strikers? Too many of you have a limited view of Dybala's abilities and to think, I was criticized that we spent too much.
Because we didn't spend too much. People who have done similar to him at the same age have gone for way less. Look at Coutinho and the 140 mil Barca wasted on him.
Are we disregarding January to May of 2018? not sure exactly how many goals he had.. but i'm pretty sure if my memory remains correct he might have been our top scorer for that period of time.
Messi doesn't share the pitch with two strikers. In a front three with Guardiola, he was the main central striker. Only at the very beginning was he a winger before being converted. Then he become a "false 9" in attack with two wingers still mainly creating for him. In the MSN attack, he was behind Suarez with Neymar as winger positioned very wide. Now Messi is again behind Suarez in a partnership. When Argentina went to the final, Messi was behind Higuain with Di Maria as a wide left midfielder. In many of these set ups, Messi is protected because his teams defend with 8 or 9 players behind him. Usually the wide player (Neymar, Di Maria, Coutihno) are asked to track back. Messi essentially conserves himself for the offensive phase. Also Messi and Dybala are very different physically. Dybala isn't nearly as explosive or press resistant. Plus, Messi's vision is unmatched. The reason why Dybala and Messi couldn't start together for Argentina with Aguero/Higuain was because all three are defensive vulnerabilities. On the pitch at most there can only be two with limited defensive responsibilities. At Juve, Ronaldo is obviously asked to mainly worry about his attacking contribution. He like Dybala is not a #9. They need a supportive #9 to play off of (Mandzukic, Benzema). I strongly feel that for this to work Juve need to find a #9 that has the capacity drop deep and defend while mainly bringing supporting Dybala and Ronaldo in attack.
Mandzukic up front with Ronaldo playing on the left had Dybala behind the striker. He cheated on the right but usually came in. He was his most effective when he came across the pitch to receive the ball and create for the attack. But he often was standing on the flank. Bernardeschi did a better job of playing the role. Thus the benching.
Mandzukic? What do you think Allegri was trying to accomplish. Again, the one player who did not adapt was Dybala. If he is going to ever achieve greatness, he needs to do more off the ball. This is not Palermo.
That's the whole point. Dybala behind two strikers hasn't worked for Juve or Argentina. All three end up wanting to occupy the same space so at least one ends up drifting into non-dangerous areas. That was often Dybala. It's very tough to accommodate two volume shooters like Ronaldo and Dybala. Liverpool have two volume scorers with Mane and Salah starting as right and left forwards. Firmino as the false 9 type. This works because Firmino (a converted midfielder) drops into midfield while Mane and Salah play off him. It gives the two scorers the space to get ahead of their #9. To accommodate Ronaldo and Dybala they probably need such a player. Ajax played the same way. It's not easy to solve. I agree that Juve at their best featured Mandzukic and Ronaldo in a partnership with cross oriented wingers (Bernardeschi) starting. However if the goal is to get the best out of Dybala then Juve needed a more mobile #9. Mandzukic is underrated with his passing, but he isn't a false #9. Bernardeschi also worked better because he is capable of covering the wing defensively. Neither Dybala or Ronaldo can do this. Neymar, Di Maria, and Coutihno did this for Messi's teams. Dybala has always been forced to adapt after his first season. Because of his stature, the thought was that he would make a great #10. Unfortunately playing a role that requires him to be all over the pitch negates his strengths as a forward. When in form he is an excellent finisher. Plus, he is strong in small spaces near the box (the Lazio goal from last year). Once he is too far from goal, he is great at beating one man but then unable to escape the next defenders as he lacks break away quickness or speed.
Juve's season basically declined once Mandzukic fell out of form or got hurt. I think Dybala is an excellent forward, but can't lead the line. Neither can Ronaldo. They are wasted there. Kean is a traditional #9 that needs to be fed and hasn't developed the ability to create for others from the #9 position. Costa was injured or out of form but that wouldn't have fixed Juve's issues in attack with Mandzukic. Same for Bernardeschi. Even with Mandzukic, it still meant Dybala on the bench. Had everyone been healthy for me the best three would have been Ronaldo, Mandzukic, Costa with the Brazilian covering the right wing when Juve defended in their normal 4-4-2.
Dybala still did well around the box. However before his injury, he was on another level. He was the best player in Europe from Sept to Nov 2017. His explosiveness since his injury that year isn't the same.
You made my point about Dybala drifting into a non-dangerous area. It is not that playing behind the two strikers is the problem, it is the player. Same goes with Pjanic. Put the ball at their feet, they are fine. But if they do not have the ball, they do not put themselves in position to make a difference. Their weakness is their off the ball movement.