https://www.transfermarkt.com/ajax-amsterdam/startseite/verein/610 https://www.transfermarkt.com/juventus-turin/kader/verein/506 It's not even close: Juve's first 11: average market value - $48m euros total market value - $526m euros Ajax's first 11: average market value - $30m euros total market value - $330m euros Take out Dybala and Ronaldo from Juve and the average for the remaining players is still higher at $36m euros.
These aren't market values based on actual transactions that would take place today. Juve's players are marked up in part because they play for Juve. Take for example, Pjanic (70m) vs De Jong (75m), Matuidi (30m) vs Van de Beek (25m), Bernardeschi (45m) vs Neres (32m), Dybala (100m) vs Ziyech (35m). Judging by this season, age, and wage, the Ajax players appear to be undervalued relative to Juve's. However, I highly doubt many of those players will be sold for those estimated (best guess) prices. If you were to construct a team solely based on the yesterday's first 11 for each team, which Juve players get into that lineup? For me, Sandro, Szchesney, Pjanic, and Ronaldo and that's it.
you wouldn't buy or construct a team based solely on 1 match. And I provided that link because it's an objective source. I don't necessarily agree with every single figure but it gives a pretty clear indication that Juve 1st 11 are worth more. You're welcome to provide a better source otherwise its just pointless conjecture.
I understand your point that it's important not to overreact to one game. With that said, judging worth based on estimated transfer values becomes very subjective and can be skewed by certain individual players. So by that metric, this Dybala of the last 18 months is worth more than their entire attack which is a bit absurd. Matuidi, a player acquired by Juve two years ago for 25m, is now valued at 30m according to their estimates. Yes it's conjecture, but how confident are you that Juve could sell him today at that 30m valuation? Same can be asked of Bonucci and Sandro. Again, the point I was trying to make is that based on form and talent/ability, Ajax's starting eleven overall was superior to Juve's on that night. Obviously injuries deprived Juve of their strongest team. That I am not denying, but given the resources Juve had in that particular match, it's not that surprising that Ajax were able to dominate. The line up and bench on Tuesday apart from Ronaldo, maybe Pjanic, Sczchesny weren't close to good enough to overcome a very talented Ajax side.
You are over-reacting. It sounds like you want to completely overhaul the team and are essentially offering pennies on the dollar for a lot of the big names in your squad. Sure there is a reality disconnect between being the favourites to win the competition and getting bundled out in the quarters. But I find it hard to believe that the "market" is getting it so wrong about the value and quality of this team. That website is saying Juve's 11 is valued 50% higher in $ terms. If we price the squads the discrepancy would be significantly higher than that. What I believe actually happened is that Allegri miscalculated and didn't set out his troops properly to take advantage of the players at his disposal. If you want me to provide some sort of detailed reasoning behind this theory I can't and obviously injuries and time spent playing together (you made this point) were all factors also. I would be studying things like replays, looking at heat maps and pass maps and that sort of thing to prove my point but I really don't care enough to do any of that but it seems a much more plausible explanation than Ajax kids > Juventus seasoned professionals. Note also that a group of better players can and often do lose to a better team. It comes down to management.
I am not suggesting Juve overhaul the squad. I am pointing out that if you look at those who played a significant role in these two legs, Ajax featured the more talented line-ups. The website you are using to assign a value, although useful to a degree, isn't "the market." They are not market values based on actual transactions as they would occur today but instead somewhat stale estimates. Plus, individual hypothetical market values can skew the overall aggregate figure which makes it appear that Juve's starting 11 was 50% greater than Ajax's. Again, take Dybala for example. According to that website he is "worth" more than Ajax's entire starting attack. Obviously that isn't an accurate assessment given Dybala's horrendous form over the last year or more. You speak of Ajax kids vs Juve's seasoned professionals, but how many seasoned professionals did Juve have during the crucial moments of the tie? Dybala-25 years old Kean- 19 Bernardeschi - 25 Can - 25 Bentancur - 21 De Sciglio - 26 Cancelo - 24 Rugani - 24 The bulk of the starting 11 had not played in such matches before. Most of the seasoned professionals were missing.
Market value is not determined by a blog site, Tottifan. Many of those Ajax kids are going to be sold for big $ this summer, especially if they make the final which is within their reach.
Italy has a fantastic youth system but at about 18-20 there is a broken link at the final transition stage and the boys often don't get the development being stuck too long in youth football. What we see is them then eventually coming through from the midtable teams at about mid 20s after getting playing time and actually having good careers, possibly getting a move to a bigger side. However, there lack of competitive football at a crucial age from 18-22 stalled development and it's too late to reach full potential. So yes B teams is an answer as the youth system is in place. Many of us have been talking about this for a decade as a fix. All serie A teams should have a B team enforced. Start them in Serie D local football so they get a taste of the reality outside top flight football and let them work there way up to Serie B.
Part of the reason he even came to Juventus was because the family could protect him and make that rape story go away. He leaves he don't have that protection
1) we don’t have 30...we have more than that 2) a mentality for losing isn’t built into the walls, it is not contagious in the air. Players/managers come and go- some have a loser mentality. It is not something that physically can be ingrained in the club; 3) why is it football debates online always descend into insulting comments? I’m a juve fan, my best friend is an AC Milan fan, we talk sensibly about football. Let’s have a sensible debate. Saying juve has a ‘loser’ mentality is a non starter as a conversation. Sure- criticise, but unless you have scientific proof that there is a contagious loser mentality in the air in Turin, please don’t write it- it devalues anything else you have to say
Anyone who calls Juve a loser team does not know what they are talking about. Was Real Madrid a loser team because they were also ousted by Ajax this year? Juventus had injury issues and the MF just could not get untracked against Ajax. Remember, they turned around a deficit against one of the strongest defensive sides in Europe in the previous round. Juventus needs to address specific shortcomings in the team roster this summer and I'm pretty confident they will do so. Tactics that work in Serie A, grinding out one goal victories does not translate to the Champions League.
Absolutely. There are shortcomings in the squad that need addressing. Ajax were tactically superior against us, as they also were against Real Madrid- so, no shame. Ps...Dusan Tadic... I watched him in the EPL and he was an ok player... God knows how the Ajax coach has got him playing like that!
Comeon, this just isn't true! Ajax played wonderfully and have a fantastic system that is perfectly suited for their players and deserved to go through. However, they are not more talented than us. We were out coached and out played. Simple as that. Szceszny > Onana De Sciglio > or = Veltman Bonucci < De Ligt Rugani = Blind (which shouldn't be the case) Alex Sandro > Sinkgraven Pjanic > or = Schone Emre Can < F De Jong Matuidi = Van De Beek Ronaldo > Neres Dybala > Tadic Bernadeschi > Ziyech I think this is pretty unbiased. Although the Ajax front 3 played better than our front 3, they are NOT better than our front 3! I think that I am being pretty generous with Pjanic > or = to Schone, Rugani = Blind, and De Sciglio > or = Veltman. Matuidi and Van De Beek play their positions differently. Matuidi is a box to box hard worker and Van De Beek is closer to a 10 from what I hear/see.
Sinkgraven was out injured all last year and really is a better MF than LB. Tagliafico our first choice was suspended and is better than Sandro. van de Beek has played all positions in the MF, though mostly he is a #10 in the Ajax system. IMO, he's better than Matuidi and I think would be a starter at your club. Ziyech is really a MF and doesn't like playing on the wing. Anyway, Juventus need to retool now and get back to where they belong.
Szceszny > Onana De Sciglio = Veltman Bonucci < De Ligt Rugani = Blind (which shouldn't be the case) Alex Sandro > Sinkgraven Pjanic > Schone Emre Can < F De Jong Matuidi < Van De Beek Ronaldo > Tadic Dybala < Neres Bernadeschi < Ziyech I think you are being very generous with Juve's players. Dybala of the last 18 months is not better than any of their attackers. Bernardeschi is a good player, works hard, yet even at his best hasn't been as impressive as Neres or Ziyech. Overall, only Ronaldo would start in their attack. In midfield, Van de Beek's pressing and passing in the final third puts him ahead of an industrious but very very limited Matuidi. De Jong was unbelievable. Pjanic over Schone is the only Juve pick of the three. In defense, it's perhaps 50/50 with only De ligt being of real real quality. Undoubtedly Szcesney, Juve's best player over two legs along with Ronaldo, gets ahead of Onana who had little to do. Vs a team that presses insanely well, has attacking fluency, and very good players, it's not that surprising that Juve lost with this Dybala, a tired looking Bernardeschi, Matuidi, Can, De Sciglio, Bonucci, and Rugani. Atalanta did this to them without key starters. Juve hardly control games in 2019 vs Serie A. The attack has only one person scoring. Allegri deserves blame, but so does the medical staff, a limited midfield, and an attack full of players that regressed badly. Even Juve's defense looks so average without Chiellini. They need a WC defender quickly because Chiellini is sadly unlikely to last for an entire CL run.
Remember we are strictly speaking about players on that night. Yes Tagliafico (as an Argentine italian myself who has tracked him I think he might not be better than average outside of Ajax), was injured. However, clearly Juve were missing by far the most players. Chiellini, Mandzukic, and Douglas Costa alone could easily have turned the tie. Then you have the likes of Cuadrado, Khedira who would have help off the bench. Factor in the Dybala was also forced off at halftime and Cancelo didnt start, Juve were severely depleted. Credit deserves to go to the winner of the competition, but every year we can look back and see how form, fitness, luck, and injuries are a huge deciding factor. I'm hoping that Ajax can lift the CL and they have a good chance to get to the final in large part because their opponent, Tottenhan, will be without by far their two best attackers (Kane, Son) and a midfield that was losing players left and right. Injuries play such a huge role in 2 legged ties.
Chiellio is going to need the Zidane/Ronaldo treatment going forward. Play maybe 2/3 of games and never back to back when we have a midweek and weekend game. Selling the Moroccan in January was huge mistake. He is not all world by any stretch but we surely could have used him for the stretch run.
Yes they do. In fact you can make a pretty good case we would have won the CL the year Pogba got hurt if he had stayed healthy. THAT midfield was one of the best in Europe when all were healthy.