€-Moneyball; High and Low Finance Football

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    #1027 Blondo, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  2. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    How come the distribution of TV revenue is so inequitable in the Eredivisie? According to Uefa's benchmarking report it's worse than Italy and about level with Greece now. A while back I saw a similar graph (ratio of highest/lowest club instead) and Holland were even worse than Spain. You'd expect Holland to be closer to Belgium, Germany, France, etc. It's very peculiar that Holland are in line with Greece instead. Sponsorship/commercial revenue is also very top heavy in Holland. The Eredivisie's bigger clubs have made it easy on themselves to the detriment of competitive balance.

    [​IMG]

    Compared to Dutch clubs Belgian ones still gain a higher income from the respective TV deals in these two countries. For a while Dutch clubs were even the only ones in the world that had to pay to broadcast their matches as they were losing money on Eredivisie Live. Murdoch came in and took care of Eredivisie Live's debt (+/- the high production costs?). I doubt he was being generous and considering FOX Eredivisie's poor viewership the income Dutch clubs actually gain might even be lower than what's in the benchmarking report. The Murdoch deal also covers a much longer period than the standard 3y cycle. With competition for the rights forfeited until the latter half of the next decade and poor viewership/dutchies being tightfisted Holland could very well keep lagging behind. It's doubtful that TV revenue's share will grow despite it being unusually low for a country like Holland.

    For decades Belgian clubs have been able to sell their TV rights for more money with Canal+ (pay-to-view) entering the market rather early and later being outbid by local telecom companies (using football to sell quad play). For the upcoming three year cycle revenue will again be bumped up and in the near future new players could very well start competing for the rights. Unless the Dutch and Belgian deals can be renegotiated the ones that are currently in place present a massive stumbling block for the BeNe League (and you'd need a solution for the CL/EL as well). I don't see this happening anytime soon.

    @feyenoordsoccerfan
     
  3. I have no answers on the lopsided distribution of the money.
    I only can guess that it's because of the disproportionate popularity of the top 3 clubs in the Netherlands, probably because of their monopoly for decades on international successes.
    And because of that the top 3 demand the lion's share of the money.
    A reason mentioned many years ago by iirc by Jorien va den Herik was that the top 3 need that money to compete in Europe.
     
  4. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    The top clubs in fairly equitable leagues are also disproportionately popular +/- bring home European silverware. It's another (better) vision and besides the ethical aspect it helps competitive balance and every club benefits long term. I think it's odd that Eredivisie haves feel the need to gouge the have-nots. At least it isn't as bad as Portugal, the only major league where clubs sell their rights individually, a league that's structurally flawed.

    Don't forget the top clubs are already the big winners with regards to other revenue streams. Sponsorship/commercial revenue often is a big chunk and unlike the TV deal it's everybody for themselves in those deals. The gate usually is a structural advantage for big clubs. Revenue from Europe has a massively distorting effect on leagues like Holland or Belgium. At least share the TV deal wealth, as you need more than 3 clubs to have a league.

    The Eredivisie clubs generate quite a lot of revenue. Yet being a top heavy league the less fortunate clubs are feeding on scraps and struggle to put up a fight. "The top 3 need that money to compete in Europe." Nonsense! It's the same elsewhere, e.g. the Swiss have one of the most equitable TV deals and still Basel show up in Europe (without taking suicidal financial gambles/being involved in criminal activity like Portuguese clubs). Look at Holland's coefficient. Plenty of leagues with more equitable TV deals are ranked higher despite those leagues generating a lot less money than the Eredivisie. Taking into account how much more money the big clubs in Holland can throw around they're really underperforming.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. I agree at least the tv money should be distributed more balanced than it is now. The Swiss example is something the KNVB and the pro clubs should have a good look at in order to learn from it.
    Just this week I read the alarm bells being sounded about dropping numbers of fans going to the matches (I believe it was in this week's Voetbal International).
    The drop in quality experienced by the fans of especially the lower in the table clubs, because even scrappy epl/BuLi etc clubs can buy away mid table Eredivisieclubs players, so these buy the players from the lower clubs with quality issues as a result.
    At least Brexit will cut off in 2019 one siphoning force on players.
     
  6. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Serie A's new TV deal includes a more equitable distribution aimed at making the league better as a whole. The previous deal was already more equitable than the one that's in place in the Eredivisie. Dutch clubs are lagging behind and all of them, including the ones at the top, would probably benefit from a more equitable distribution, increasing competitive balance.


    [​IMG]
     
  7. I watched Chelsea vs Barcelona and PSG vs Real.
    I wonder what Abramovich thinks. He's being outgunned by people with far deeper pockets. It's useless to try to buy yourself a CL title when you just have a few billions in the treasure chest when others carry that amount round in their wallets. They really need to rethink their MO.
    Watching how Chelsea played yesterday it becomes painfully clear there are only six clubs in Europe on more or less the same level and the EPL only has one of them.
     
  8. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Unless Abramovich has lost all of his oligarch €s he is certainly wealthy enough to bankroll things at Chelsea. Remember Chelsea start off each season with over €100M in the bank from television money. I was looking at their Wikipedia page and they have 36 players out on loan!!! That is ridiculous and I wonder if UEFA can do anything about this.

    I think Conte will leave at the end of the season if they go out of the CL to Barca. He is wound up tighter than a Swiss clock and can only deal with a club for 2-3 seasons before he starts losing it.

    What is more interesting to me is how far Italian football has fallen. I wonder if an Italian team will ever win a CL. Juventus are the only team that seems able to contend and even they are a selling team these days.
     
  9. He divorced and his ex takes 50% of what he had.
    He had about 6 billion in assets iirc, not money and when you compare that to the PSG and ManCity owner who make that about every year in income, you get an idea of what he's up against to. He can spend alot, but for the big guns he's as much a sellers club as Ajax is.
     
  10. I heared that the buyer of AC Milan went bust and no one knows what that means for AC Milan. He hadnot pay the bill yet AFAIK.
     
  11. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/sports/soccer/fifa-club-world-cup.html?smid=re-share

    In the last paragraph the writer mentions FIFA and UEFA could be put offside (refering to his EU ruling). In the early days of the game the football landscape was a patchwork without much uniformity. FIFA was created with an anti-competitive behaviour mission in mind to tackle that uniformity issue and root out any splinter organizations (e.g. the quote below from FIFA themselves). Now that scandals have eroded FIFA's hold on power and they're even struggling to properly monetize their flagship event, the World Cup, there could be opportunities for 3rd parties to start challenging FIFA's monopoly or at least make them more attuned to corporate wishes. FIFA have been worried about football's equivalent of the NBA, be it a long-mooted Super League break-away or the filthy rich Premier League for that matter. TBF FIFA haven't been sitting idly by and lately they've been exhausting themselves to try to stay relevant, launching one proposal after the other.

    However Infantino has already been told that the CWC expansion won't happen in 2021. Earlier this year Ceferin also said the Global Nations League or World League, which could see the light of day in 2021 as well, might take more time to be realized because he's being confronted with a few big egos. It doesn't sound like it's going swimmingly for FIFA. I don't mind that the World League won't replace the Nations League as quickly as first envisioned. We'll just hold the Nations League instead. IMO they should simply alternate between the Nations League and a World League (like is the case with the World Cup and confed level events; the NL ahead of the EUROs and the World League ahead of the World Cup). The expanded CWC will be confronted with these national team competitions. The calendar is already awfully congested, especially if the expanded CWC is to be held in summer.

     
  12. https://fd.nl/ondernemen/1162572/gat-tussen-top-en-subtop-in-eredivisie-weer-gegroeid
    The gap financially between the top 3 and the rest has grown.
    De Grote Drie nemen verder afstand van de rest | Het Financieele ...
    https://fd.nl/ondernemen/1213337/de-grote-drie-nemen-verder-afstand-van-de-rest
    11 aug. 2017 - Dit blijkt uit het jaarlijkse onderzoek van het FD naar de financiële situatie van de clubs in de Eredivisie. Vrijdagavond begint het nieuwe seizoen met de wedstrijd ADO Den Haag tegen FC Utrecht. Het grote verschil in de begrotingen van de top 3 en de rest maakt het zo goed als zeker dat de kampioen van ..
     
  13. Couldnot find an English language source, so use google trans for this

    Clubs and leagues arm themselves against the power of the superclubs

    https://www.ad.nl/buitenlands-voetb...wapenen-zich-tegen-macht-superclubs~a05b6ab8/
    Competities en clubs wapenen zich tegen macht superclubs

    In het Hilton-hotel op Schiphol kwamen gisteren bestuurders van vrijwel alle Europese clubcompetities samen. Het doel: hun voetbal wapenen tegen het groeiende gebrek aan spanning. ,,De rijkdom van maar een handvol clubs bedreigt het gehele Europese voetbal.’’

    Sjoerd Mossou 24-04-18, 08:08
     
  14. And on top of that FIFA is selling something that isnot theirs to sell.
    Without European (UEFA and clubs) consent it's worthless.
    https://www.ad.nl/buitenlands-voetb...r-wk-clubs-en-nations-leagueenrsquo~ac80bcd3/
    ‘Consortium biedt 20,2 miljard euro voor WK clubs en Nations League’

    Een consortium uit het Midden-Oosten en Zuidoost-Azië heeft een bod van 25 miljard dollar (20,2 miljard euro) gedaan op het WK voor clubs en de Nations League. De investeerders zouden volledige zeggenschap willen over de twee toernooien. Dat meldt NY Times.

    Mystery Consortium Is Said to Offer FIFA $25 Billion for Control of 2 ...
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/.../fifa-club-world-cup.html - Vertaal deze pagina
    9 apr. 2018 - He also wants to make good on a promise of a fourfold increase in development funds to FIFA's 211 member nations. He faces ... European representatives were resistant because the competition could compete with the UEFA Champions League, the wildly popular club championship for Europe. A group ..
     
  15. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The best way to deal with the situation is to eliminate the large prize money that goes with CL football competition. Make it the same as the Europa League. This way it evens out. They also could reduce the number of slots an individual league gets in the CL down to two so that the big leagues are not getting 3-4 teams in the competition. Why should anyone want to watch the same teams play in the quarter and semifinals every single season?

    Going down the current trajectory will leave football in bad shape. Just look at what is happening in Italy right now. Roma has made a good run in the CL but might not even qualify next year. Juventus and Napoli are decent but look at how poor the two Milan teams are. Spain has three good teams and a bunch of also rans. France is PSG and Germany are Bayern. England has too much television money and will always be able to get the best players as they can afford to.
     
  16. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
  17. AC Milan has been banned for the next two seasons for Euro competitions they qualify for.
    Their new Chinese owners spent more than they could do in relation to AC Milan's revenues.
     
  18. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I wonder if this will trigger escape clauses for some of the Milan players who don't want to sit on the sidelines now.

    Now we need to see what happens with PSG. They avoided any sanctions last season when they got Mbappe because he came on a one season loan. Now they need to pay off Monaco and that triggers FFP rules. They are going to try to off load a lot of players but I don't know if it will be enough.
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I still maintain that Financial Foul Play is a better name
     
    Orange14 repped this.
  20. You, you, communist:D
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The only thing FFP does is making it a closed shop.
     
  22. That's true. It freezes and adds to the wealth of the "old money crew".
     
  23. FIAT employees are outraged by the prospect of Juventus spending 220 million (100 transfer fee and 120 million salary), while they for ten years have been kept at the pay base line without any increase/compensation, not even for inflation.
    I would suggest them not to buy a season ticket and not buy shirts and boycott the matches.
     

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