€-Moneyball; High and Low Finance Football

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  2. What I donot understand, why they donot go for this verdict, Alejandro Urrea has brought down the Ruling of the FIFA for minors.
    http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2016/05/29/actualidad/1464558525_399856.html
    Un niño contra la FIFA
    Alejandro Urrea, jugador colombiano del Pozuelo, de 16 años, libra una batalla jurídica que amenaza con derogar el régimen de control de menores en el fútbol
     
  3. He reads the Netherlands thread, as he mentions something I some time ago suggested:

    "Capping squad sizes could alleviate the problem, he said. “I fully share that view, we have to work on squad size limits.“
     
  4. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Good article on CL Money from The Swiss Ramble. ManCity got more money last year by reaching the semis than Madrid did by winning. Had to do with British TV revenue. The rich get richer.
     
  5. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  6. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Interesting that The Netherlands was the third most popular destination for minors behind the EPL and Italy. Maybe we shouldn't through stones at glass houses.
     
  7. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    At least you like your "eigen teelt" (your local talents). We seem to hate our ours ... while in Holland, the top destination for Belgian minors, they very much like the Belgian kiddies (BE to NL is the main axis of international migration for underaged talents) ... there are twice as many Belgians playing in the Eredivisie than Dutchies in our league while the heydays of Eredivisie Belgians are well behind us (with the likes of Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Vermaelen, Chadli, Mertens, Dembele, et al. plus all the others before them) ... and what's even more strange, Holland have one of the lowest percentages of legionnaires in Europe while Belgium, together with England, are the worst offenders when it comes to importing legionnaires to the detriment of local talents ... despite there being less Pro League clubs than Eredivisie clubs, there are roughly twice as many legionnaires in the Pro League ... Holland together with France, Italy, Germany and Spain (even English academies) are very much top destinations that young talents flock to searching for a better football education and a better future ... in stark contrast to Belgium's bottom rank ... compared to our neighbours, we're very much the odd one out.

    The article's conclusion confirms why we're right to bemoan talents leaving too early ... players having left their country under the age of 18 have, on average, less rewarding careers than footballers who left later with more experience under their belt.

    This result indicates that the premature international migration of inexperienced players poses serious risks for both the footballers concerned and the teams recruiting them. Unfortunately, in spite of all sporting logic, in an overly speculative context where numerous actors make their living out of player transfers, the international flow of minors increases with each year.
     
  8. Okay, when you think the EPL shit heap cannot get higher they dump another major league turd on it:

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...manchester-united-scour-europe-feeder-9485028
    Manchester United scour Europe for feeder club as Red Devils bid to make young guns great
    The Old Trafford giants are looking at outfits in Belgium, France and the Netherlands as part of their overhaul of football operations post-Fergie.
    Manchester United are exploring options to acquire an overseas feeder club in order to improve the development of the Premier League side's younger professionals.


    The proposed acquisition of a smaller, continental-based outfit forms part of an ongoing plan to overhaul United's football operations in the post-Sir Alex Ferguson-David Gill era
    .

    Isnot it getting time to halt this kind of colonialist behaviour!
     
  9. The Chinese league is threatening to upset European football with transfers of stars for idiotic sums. They now go after stars in their prime and the latest target with a Pogba record braking transfer is Dortmund's Aubameyang.
    The clubs with a threat to the UEFA with their socalled Super League are within a few months becoming a laughing stock as they are unable to match what the Chinese are putting on the table. Those American backers with money for that Superleague are now counting their blessings that it didnot get off the ground as they would have lost their money on that gamble.
    The EPL isnot going to be attractive anymore when star players can earn 40 million a year in China.
     
  10. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ^^Not only that, but have a look at this NY Times article that was on the front page today about the investment China is making to develop young players. Midway through there is a picture of the world's largest soccer complex, Evergrande, with 48 pitches!!
     
  11. Sybe Pals

    Sybe Pals Member

    Oct 13, 2015
    Comox, BC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  12. Diarra wins legal battle with the FIFA and the KBVB.
    http://nos.nl/artikel/2153865-diarra-wint-rechtszaak-tegen-de-fifa.html

    "De Franse voetballer Lassana Diarra heeft een slepende rechtszaak tegen de FIFA en de Belgische bond KBVB gewonnen. Die hadden zijn transfer in februari 2015 van de Russische ploeg Lokomotiv Moskou naar het Belgische Sporting Charleroi niet mogen tegenhouden.

    Lokomotiv meldde zich met het voorval bij de FIFA en eiste vanwege contractbreuk 20 miljoen euro van Diarra toen die de club wilde verruilen voor Charleroi. In mei 2015 legde de FIFA de 34-voudig Frans international een boete op van 10 miljoen euro en een speelverbod voor de duur van zijn nog lopende contract bij Lokomotiv.

    Toen dat speelverbod in de zomer van 2015 was verlopen, tekende Diarra een contract bij Olympique Marseille. Maar hij liet het conflict met de FIFA niet rusten. Diarra ving bot bij het sporttribunaal CAS, maar de handelsrechter heeft nu geoordeeld dat de straf in strijd is met het vrije verkeer van werknemers in Europa. Diarra eist nu 6 miljoen euro aan inkomstenderving
    ."
    Google translate:
    "The French footballer Lassana Diarra has won a protracted lawsuit against FIFA and the Belgian federation RBFA. Which should not stop his transfer from the Russian team Lokomotiv Moscow in February 2015 to the Belgian Sporting Charleroi.

    Lokomotiv volunteered with the incident to FIFA and demanded for breach of contract 20 million from Diarra when he wanted to trade the club Charleroi. In May 2015, FIFA explained the 34-times French international a fine of 10 million and a playing ban for the duration of his ongoing contract with Lokomotiv.

    When that game ban had expired in the summer of 2015, Diarra signed a contract with Olympique Marseille. But he did not rest the conflict with FIFA. Diarra caught flounder in the sport tribunal CAS, but the trade court has now ruled that the penalty is contrary to the free movement of workers in Europe. Diarra is now demanding 6 million euros in lost earnings
    ."

    What kind of effect is this going to have on soccer contracts?
     
  13. Blondo repped this.
  14. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/voetbal/Jupiler_Pro_League/1.2898601

    In Belgium players under 16 can't sign a contract with a club and often the best talents leave as soon as they turn 16 ... yet in a recent verdict the judge ruled in favour of Anderlecht ... who offered a pre-contract in which the promise is made that unless he pays damages the player will sign a contract as soon as he turns 16yo (and signing the contract isn't prohibited by law any longer) ... it's a major precedent which could help stem the exodus of underaged players from smaller countries.

    Dutch clubs could also protect their academies from being raided with these sort of contracts ... or at least will receive compensation.
     
  15. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ^^ Isn't the age of consent to sign a contract governed by UEFA or FIFA? I saw today that Deshawn Redan is going to sign with Ajax despite overtures from ManU. I think the smart kids can see the roadmap and will make the right decision. It's up to the club to be prompt in signing them. Fosu-Mensah left Ajax because the club would not commit. that's Ajax's fault, not the systems.
     
  16. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    UEFA and FIFA have to respect labour laws (or they'd be involved in illegal activity) ... there are compensation fees for the football education that kiddies receive but these fees hardly offer protection (IIRC instead of an increase, fees even have been cut) ... we're talking laughable amounts for e.g. EPL clubs while clubs from smaller leagues have to compete in a race to the bottom they can not win ... and sometimes the kiddies themselves go off the rails (plenty power to pester clubs with).

    I expect more and more kiddies (+ their parents and agents) will make calculated choices to the detriment of clubs in smaller leagues that provided their education ... moving to clubs that hoard talents is quite appealing (as evidenced by these clubs concentrating talent more strongly than ever before) ... this process is at the heart of the deterioration of competitive balance in Europe ... without protection things will only get worse.

    E.g. Standard were bringing a very promising class through (they have a very decent track record of giving kiddies plenty of chances in the first team) ... yet more than a dozen of the most promising talents left as soon as they turned 16 ... hardly makes sense to invest in youth development because the compensation fees are peanuts and you still have to look for transfer targets for the first team when the kiddies leave (clubs have closed down their academies or choose not to invest in youth) ... IIRC Depay's transfer fee had to cover the losses of PSV's academy according to "tussendelinies" ... when a club loses the most promising talents at the age of 16, they'll incur financial losses as very few kiddies will come good or even have a (semi-)pro career in football.
     
  17. That's why I proposed the system where a talent gets a place in the academy if, and only if the parents sign an education contract that after the kid is 16/18, he will sign a pro contract for up to 3 years. If they fail to do so, when the club offers the contract, they have to pay 2 million in education/development fees. If they donot sign the contract, the kid can go and play with the amateur clubs. It takes the clubs to quit the spineless attitude to kidnap youngsters from each other, otherwise it is useless and better quit with academies alltogether.
    The second thing we must do, is to refuse any loan of players under the age of 23. Let young players that choose to be leeches of our system rot on the benches of the top clubs. It only takes a few years to show you have a spine and the kids in the end will say to EPL lures, no, thank you.
    What do the 5/6 Arsenal loans, the Chelsea/vitesse partnership loans, the Mancity/Twente combo loans contribute to our football? Nothing. It gives to talents the illusion they have a way to the top first team so they keep signing those lure contracts. Their presence also block talents that do choose to stay and then are punished for that choice by being overtaken by kids that did go away. Not exactly a stimulance is it.
    The simple message our clubs have to give is that when you go, there is no coming back as a loan to ripe. The whole development road must be from kid to grown up in this league or you choose to rot on the EPL reserves/bench and never get the chance to develop by playing matches.
    This message has to be put forward with utmost clarity, but a bunch at bthe beginning will still think they are the smarter ones untill they hit the EPL first team treshold. And their shit must be put on the table of the parents of the kids that come after them as an example of how we now do business. Our way or no way.
     
    Orange14 and Blondo repped this.
  18. Feyenoord has won a court battle that also saves PSV and Ajax millions. The case was against the Dutch IRS. They wanted Feyenoord to pay taxes over the transfer fee that went into the pocket of Pelle.
    [​IMG]

    Feyenoord, Ajax en PSV juichen na uitspraak in Pèlle-zaak en sparen miljoenen uit
    woensdag 5 april 2017 om 07:19


    Feyenoord heeft een rechtszaak met grote gevolgen voor het hele Nederlandse betaalde voetbal gewonnen. De Rotterdamse club spande een zaak aan tegen de Belastingdienst voor de miljoenenheffing die clubs moeten betalen op het deel van de transfersom waar spelers recht op hebben na het maken van een transfer naar het buitenland.

    Feyenoord ging naar de rechter om de transfer van Graziano Pellè naar Southampton. Naast de 52 procent inkomstenbelasting die de Italiaan al over zijn salaris had betaald, moest Feyenoord nog eens 75 procent over het deel van de transfersom dat Pellè meekreeg betalen.

    De rechter in Den Haag, zo meldt De Telegraaf, heeft geoordeeld dat de belastingheffing op de excessieve vertrekvergoeding 'in strijd is met het Europese Verdrag tot bescherming van de rechten van de mens en de funamentele vrijheden'. De miljoenenheffing was ooit bedoeld voor bankiers en topmanagers, maar raakte nu onterecht ook voetballers die met goede prestaties een transfer naar het buitenland hadden verdiend. Bovendien is de verkoop van spelers voor clubs in het voetbal de voornaamste inkomstenbron.

    De uitspraak van de rechter is uitstekend nieuws voor Ajax, PSV en Feyenoord. De belastingen die afgedragen zijn voor het uitkeren van een deel van de transfersom aan spelers na een transfer naar het buitenland sinds 2013, kunnen na de uitspraak teniet worden gedaan. De zaak werd voor Feyenoord uitgevochten door huisjurist Joris van Benthem en algemeen directeur Eric Gudde. Zij hielden PSV en Ajax goed op de hoogte van de zaak.
     
  19. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Berlusconi has sold Milan to Chinese investors for €740. Club has missed European football in each of the last three seasons and is still aways from even Europa League qualification. How the mighty have fallen.
     
  20. Today I read the news about AZ and their stadium. When the going was tough, to use an understatement, befriended businessmen bought the AZ stadium, to keep it available for AZ. Now, after 7 years they could sell it back to AZ under the same conditions they bought it after the financial collaps, because AZ is back on its feet again. Good news sound management makes a stable, viable organization of AZ.

    http://nos.nl/artikel/2168099-az-koopt-stadion-terug.html

    AZ koopt stadion terug
    Gisteren, 18:26
    Economie, Voetbal
    [​IMG]
    Stadion AZ ANP


    AZ is na zeven jaar weer baas in eigen huis. De Alkmaarse club koopt het stadion (en het veld voor het stadion en de omliggende parkeerterreinen) van Stadion Alkmaar Beheer, een investeringsmaatschappij van een aantal lokale ondernemers.

    De club was na het faillissement van DSB Bank van eigenaar/voorzitter Dirk Scheringa gedwongen tot verkoop over te gaan. Het stadion behoorde tot de failliete inboedel van DSB Beheer.

    [​IMG]
    Het AZ-stadion in 2006, toen nog DSB Stadion Pro Shots
    Stadion Alkmaar Beheer bood hulp door het stadion per 15 juni 2010 voor 15 miljoen euro over te nemen. Daarbij ging de club destijds een 25-jarige huurovereenkomst aan voor 900.000 euro per jaar. Tevens had AZ het eerste recht op koop van het stadion.

    AZ koopt het stadion onder dezelfde voorwaarden terug als de investeringsmaatschappij het destijds overnam, voor 15 miljoen euro. De deal heeft financiële voordelen, zo vindt algemeen directeur Robert Eenhoorn.

    [​IMG]
    Robert Eenhoorn op de tribune Pro Shots
    "We zijn met zijn allen hard aan het werk om structureel tot een betere exploitatie te komen", aldus Eenhoorn op de website van AZ. "Daardoor krijgt AZ betere mogelijkheden richting de toekomst. We zijn dan ook zeer verheugd dat de club en stadion weer één zijn.”

    De koop van het stadion, dat in 2006 werd geopend als vervanger van de Alkmaarderhout, komt tot stand in het jaar dat AZ het vijftigjarige bestaan viert. De club ontstond in 1967 uit een fusie tussen Alkmaar '54 en FC Zaanstreek.
     
  21. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Well this is really interesting. Story from The New Yorker on one of the stadiums in Qatar for the WC. Guess who the architect is!!!!
     
    Sybe Pals repped this.

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