He was their top scorer and best player while he was starting for them, outperforming Barkley in a system much less conducive to his style, so where does this fantasy that he was a failure come from? Revisionism at its finest. The reason he's in the Championship it seems is because of these issues behind the scenes with Big Sam trying to coerce him into changing agents, not because he's not good enough to play for West Ham, which he clearly is.
Over a short period. You don't become a great player in a dozen games. Why was he not starting every game? Allardyce seemed to allude that he didn't think the groin injury should have been keeping him out. Convenient hearsay.
Straw man argument. Nobody said he'd become a great. You used examples of flair players than had done well under Big Sam, I countered that Ravel actually had done too. It makes a lot more sense than Allardyce randomly allowing their best player to leave on loan, and no less objective than speculation that he wasn't good enough despite the stats and praise he gained. The fact is if you read through the Ravel threads and matchday thread on West Ham boards, their appraisals of him from back then were glowing. It's only since this controversy has kicked up that they've started trying to re-write history.
There is a massive difference between doing something for three or four years and doing it for a few months. People are saying he would thrive in a different team (MUFC1 for example), I'm saying you could thrive under Allardyce with the right attitude. Or it could be as Allardyce says it is. Morrison thought he should be playing more and asked to move, after agitating for a move to Fulham. Being good enough is not just about having the talent, it's about having the stomach and application for a relegation fight. Maybe that's the reason - it's certainly a lot more plausible than a manager fighting for survival pissing off his supposed best player by trying to force him to sign for a particular agent.
AGAIN?... with the best player, (in a side playing relegation form football), and 'top scorer', (all three goals, y'mean?)? Seriously? Isn't it strange how we mustn't 'make assumptions' about Morrison and the reason he's bounced from one manager to the next... but it's perfectly acceptable to assume Allardyce got rid of him because he wouldn't sign with a particular agent I mean, I'm no fan of Sam Allardyce and his 19th century football by ANY means and his style of play is the OPPOSITE of what we should be looking for with England but, let's get real here... the guy brought them up from the championships and achieved decent, mid-table obscurity and will probably do the same this year. The idea he's going to go out of his WAY to piss off his 'best player and top scorer', ((c) BigSoccerTrash 2014), just for the sake of it is, frankly, complete bollocks!!! If there is ANYTHING in it, (which there probably isn't), it's more likely that Morrison went in to see him with talk that his agent thought he 'should be starting more' or 'should be playing more minutes', and Allardyce told him to get a new agent 'coz he sounds like a cvnt'! Now THAT I CAN believe... or is that me 'making assumptions' again?
I think that basing that reasoning on the story of JJO and the like seems tenuous at best, not to mention a bit simplistic. Could he do well under Big Sam? Yes, he already has done to some extent. Could he fulfil his potential there? No, the style simply isn't conducive to the type of player he is. We've already seen how otherwise top class players like Mata and Kagawa perform in systems that don't suit them, hard work isn't enough. Allardyce already has a history of this sort of thing, and there hasn't been a bad word said about Morrison's application since his early days at Brum. Besides, it's not like a promotion battle in the Championship takes any less stomach than the situation West Ham are in anyway, Redknapp can't afford to have slackers in the team either. Yes, seriously. West Ham fans were quite unanimous in their view of him at the time, as were pretty much everyone on here too.
Clearly, Morrison moved because his relationship broke down with Allerdyce. West Ham officials were openly talkin about giving him a bigger contract after a few months. Then contract talks were putonn hold as Morrison wanted to wait until the summer. All of a sudden he was then dropped and the very respected Daniel Taylor I the Guardian made that story about Sam and his dodgy agent. For some people here it's clearly easier to believe that it's all Morrisons doing. This whole "only doing it for a dozen games" argument is a bit glflimsy tbh. When he's happy like he was at the beginning of the season and right now for QPR he plays brilliantly, only when all the contract negotiations started to he weirdly get dropped. That's the other thing, his being dropped seemed a little strange in the first place. An as for certain people asking why he isn't at a bigger club, you'll find he's been watched by City, Liverpool, Real an Barca scouts this season according to various press reports and listening to Rogers talk about him it wouldn't surprise me to see him bid in the summer
This one y'mean? http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/feb/15/ravel-morrison-west-ham-united-waste Morrison, playing as he was before Christmas, would have helped the process enormously. Instead, if the paperwork goes through, Morrison will not be at Upton Park when Allardyce's team play Southampton next weekend. Could this be the game he's talking about??? http://www.theguardian.com/football...nited-southampton-premier-league-match-report West Ham 3 - Southampton 1 From jaded January to fabulous February, West Ham's season has come full circle. This, their fourth victory in succession, was a win straight from the Sam Allardyce textbook – ruthless, efficient and, at times, unlikely – a further tonic to aid the Hammers' renaissance and consign to history the doom surrounding the club last month. Strangely, that article, despite being in the Guardian and only a week later, makes no mention of Morrison... how very odd
If it was most other managers I would question Morrison's actions but this is Allardyce and I would trust that guy about as far as I could throw him
I'm guessing that's not very far Hey! I've got no time for the guy either but I don't think he's a total bloody idiot and that's what he'd have to be to throw away the chance of an important player leaving them in a relegation fight. The blunt truth is, their results have improved since the kid left... there's no 'interpretation' or 'assumptions' about THAT!
No, I don't believe that is the article. I'm on my phone so can't dig it up but I'm pretty sure Jenks posted it here a while back. As for Ravel leaving being the reason their results have improved. Lol.
It's by the journalist he mentioned, in the newspaper he mentioned at about the time he mentioned, so... Actually, I didn't make the claim that's why they've improved. I said that the polar opposite view, (that he was their best player and a HUGE loss to them), is difficult to sustain when you look at the results. Normally, when a side loses their best player, the results don't improve substantially so there's probably more to it than that. It's OTHERS that are trying to explain things in a simplistic and, frankly, childish, way... not me.
So.... What's your point? It's still the wrong article. Taking a teams best individual player (who played in a system where unsuited to him is an understatement) out of a team to be replaced by a big fat battering ram complimented by the return of Tall Andy. It's not a surprise results improved when Sam can play the way he wants - hoofball. It's no slight on Morrison as a player and trying to use the improved results as a slight to him as a player is totally abstract and agenda focused. He was by EVERYONES account their best player. You talk about childish and simplistic views, well I'm afraid those are your views - like digs regarding what he decides to put on the back of his shirt. My reasoning is thoroughly explained, backed up by his stats and more importantly based on an objective eye of what he does on a football pitch through the youth teams until now. Good idea to make a Morrison thread.
Soon after I joined this site nearly four years ago, I put up a "Is Ravel our beat talent" type thread, but it was taken down and just merged with one of the others. But yeah, from my brief scannings of some of the posts on here I do find it all tedious in the extreme and to my mind time wasting. But I can see how people are drawn in. But if people enjoy it...
I just wish that we could be discussing our young English talent who are doing the business in the game at the top level, REGARDLESS of which club they are, or were, associated with. I don't come on here droning on about McEachran, do I?! In fact, quite the opposite, I've said he seems to be struggling to realise his early potential because, y'know... HE IS!
I have no Problem bigging up talents from whatever club, as I do on a regular basis. I've seen Rav play since he was 15 and genuinely think he is a world class talent and I find it hard to understand why others wouldn't agree, so I debate the idea rashionally. If Ravel use to play for Crawley town instead if United then perhaps people wouldn't kick up so much fuss.
Well, that's not realistic, is it... in any event, if he used to play for Crawley Town nobody would have heard of him, would they. The reason why they have is because of the way he was spoken about by some major figures in the game and because of a few flashes of genius once in a while over the past few years. Not because of what he's actually achieved. Thus, the issue!
You'll fin everyone is talking about how good he was or how talented he is, not how good he is. Although, the goal against Spurs and recent goals for QPR are starting to show his true ability, playing behind the striker where he should be.
Also id like to think a player would still be playing for England whether he was at Crawley town or anywhere else, if they are good enough.
Not entirely sure what the means ... I was just saying that part of the history of the guy is the statements made about him by people in the game like Ferguson. To be clear, they're obviously a PLUS point in his favour Fair point. Again, fair point but, realistically, if he was that good, a player probably wouldn't be playing for them, would he.
For the sanity of the majority of the board any and all discussion of Ravel Morrison will now take place here