Zidane vs Christiano Ronaldo

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by boldaring, Apr 23, 2007.

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  1. Leto

    Leto New Member

    Aug 23, 2001
    Donegal,Ireland
    Could you try to be more vague, please?
     
  2. TKORL

    TKORL Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    Club:
    Valencia CF
    Wtf...... Shearer/Nakata/Riquelme/Micoud/Mendieta/Veron/Ferdinand/Campbell don't belong in the same sentence as Zidane...overrated or not.
     
  3. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    Perhaps I might retract Nakata and Micoud but they are close. The others are superior, some having individual seasons that Zidane cannot match, others being better during their peak years and the rest simply better over the majority of their careers.
     
  4. brassmonkey

    brassmonkey Member

    Oct 10, 2003
    You can't compare goalkeepers with midfielders.

    Take Nakata, Mendieta, Sousa, and Micoud off and you have a pretty good list of the greats of this generation, but I've seen all of them play and none of them in my mind match Zidane. It's not because I heard someone on tv or read on a message board people saying he was great. It's because before I saw him play I viewed football as a sport, like basketball or baseball. After I first saw him I realised that it could be an art, a religious experience full of indescrible beauty. I can watch Ronaldo move through some defenders and let a screamer loose or Ronaldinho dribble the ball or Rivaldo do a bicycle kick, and I think that its awesome. But when I see Zidane I'm often times nearly moved to tears, because its truly magical. You can spit out statistics all you want, and yeah I'll agree Zidane isnt the best of all time or maybe even of his generation, but I KNOW that for me he'll always be the greatest. Greatness isn't something you can put down on a score sheet, and it doesn't show up on paper. It's something you have to see and feel.
     
  5. Ronaldob4hegotfat

    Ronaldob4hegotfat New Member

    Sep 14, 2006
    Australia
    I'll support a good portion of that list. Atleast 60% of it.
     
  6. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    I can, as no-one specified differently. That is why the list contains players from every position. Regardless, it is good to see you accept that the list stands up to scrutiny.

    The last part of your post (particularly the bolded parts) is what Tribune and I are trying to explain. We do not disagree that aesthetically Zidane was a great player. What we disagree with is when people use aesthetics when ranking players and then refuse to accept that they have done so. Thankfully you have not fallen into the same trap and I applaud you for it. Pity the other Zidane fans cannot do likewise. Comparing or ranking players aesthetically is an exceptionally subjective way of doing things and one that is completely irrelevant unless aesthetics is clearly defined beforehand as being the key factor to consider. It is not a difficult concept to understand.

    Thanks.
     
  7. gazzad_5

    gazzad_5 Member

    Jan 19, 2004
    since when are these things based upon 'individual seasons'??
     
  8. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Over Redondo? Really?
     
  9. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    I listed players who are considered to be the best of our generation, which makes the one season wonder issue you are referring to completely redundant. Would you like to contribute to the overall discussion at any stage?
     
  10. TKORL

    TKORL Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    Club:
    Valencia CF
    I disagree, I don't think Zidane was that interesting to watch. I mean yeah he spins and stuff, but "religious experience full of indescrible beauty"...hardly.

    No more aesthetically appealing than say Redondo, Kaka, Baggio, Riquelme, the Ronaldos (both fat, skinny, and buckteeth).

    If you want a midfield general that was aesthetically pleasing to watch, I would say Veron would be a better choice. (And i'm not even a veron fan)
     
  11. brassmonkey

    brassmonkey Member

    Oct 10, 2003
    Spins and stuff? Ok...

    Aesthetics are relative, and therefore you can think he looked like an ugly fat pig rolling around in the mud if you want. I just happen to disagree. Maradona doesn't really do anything for me but tons of people think watching him is as good as it gets.

    Religious experiences are also subjective. A lot of people would probably find a trip to Mecca or the Vatican incredibly moving. I would be bored out of my mind. Again, different strokes...
     
  12. TKORL

    TKORL Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    Club:
    Valencia CF
    My point exactly. Using a very subjective standard for aesthetic beauty is no way to decide if someone is a footballing legend.
     
  13. Walter3000

    Walter3000 Member+

    Apr 8, 2004
    gainesville, Florida
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I've thought about it, If we're talking about the top players of his time and not the last 10 yearsthan think he makes my second 11.
    1st:
    Ronaldo
    Rivaldo
    Nedved
    Figo
    Keane
    Redondo
    Maldini
    Thuram
    DeSailly
    Cafu
    Schmeichel

    Ruud
    Bergkamp
    Zidane
    Giggs
    Vieira
    Makelele
    Carlos
    Cannavaro
    Nesta
    Zanetti
    Kahn


    Picking CM spots out of the last two, Davids, Ballack, Seedorf, etc was the toughest. Sure Giggs is a LW and Zidane prefers that side of the pitch, but it could work. Picking strikers was difficult, not sure if Baggios qualifes, and too many of the ones I like are support strikers(Zola, Del Piero, Totti, Raul etc) how do you fit them in. If Romario and Baggio qualify for this discussion they'd be included. That works for some others as well, not sure who qualifies, guys who had their primes during Zidane's? or played the bulk of their best years in his era? The worst part about this, is if I dont include Zidane in my first team people will freak out.
     
  14. blanc

    blanc Member

    Jan 13, 2006
    Los Galácticos
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nice post.

    The only disagreement we have is over aesthetics .. but if you take away aesthetics, what is there worth watching in football?
     
  15. blanc

    blanc Member

    Jan 13, 2006
    Los Galácticos
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    For the record, TDB, who is better? Zidane or C. Ronaldo? Would be an interesting answer :p
     
  16. Tribune

    Tribune Member

    Jun 18, 2006

    Winning.

    What most of you ignore is the fact that there have been players in the past which were entertaining and more effective than Zidane.

    It's fine with me if you consider Zidane one of the best players over the last decade based on aesthetics. But Zidane gets way too much credit for this reason alone.

    Including him in a top 10 ever (and he usually makes such tops) based on aesthetics is quite superficial. That's why he is overrated.
     
  17. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Gentlemen, I'd appreciate if we kept the tone a bit more polite and reasonable on this thread. The occasional outbursts of "you're stupid" or "you're biased and not contributing" aren't helping what has the potential to be an excellent thread. Thanks ;)

    As for my unsolicited opinion - I believe it was Platini who once said when Zidane went to Juventus: "he'll entertain you". That he certainly has, for many years. (I was at Zidane's final home game for Real at the Bernabeu.) But I wouldn't even say he was the best Real player of the past decade, an honor I'd give to Redondo.
     
  18. lanman

    lanman BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 30, 2002
    I think you also need to put Raul ahead of him, although he has gone off the boil over the last few seasons.
     
  19. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    As I said earlier in this thread, it may have been true at club level but certainly not at the international stage - it terms of effectiveness and consistency at the highest level with France Zidane is up there with the very best ever.
     
  20. blanc

    blanc Member

    Jan 13, 2006
    Los Galácticos
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I'm following, but as it is, a game in which both teams seem dead set on 'winning' is a game like the 06/07 Champion's League Semi Final between Chelsea/Liverpool .. if you're not a supporter of either team, that game was a terrible terrible thing to watch. Drab football which laboured to a penalty shootout. Don't agree.

    I'm sure you don't think this is the pinnacle of your mentality (likewise, I am not ignoring your pleas to watch Zico or another artist/effect player, just for the sake of this thread I'm mentioning that), but if I had options in what game I could watch at any particular time, I would always take a team that I know has alot more artistry in their playing style than a team thats direct, forceful and winning, ie. I would rather a team won 3-0 playing sweeping creative football than a clinical team pouncing forward in one team attack, scoring 1-0, then defending the rest of the game. Reverse those scorelines and I would still choose the former.

    IMO.
     
  21. TKORL

    TKORL Member

    Dec 30, 2006
    Club:
    Valencia CF
    Agreed, however, the argument is that there are other players who were attractive to watch and were arguably more effective than Zidane. For an example, take Redondo or Baggio.
     
  22. Tribune

    Tribune Member

    Jun 18, 2006
    No, that's not the "winning" I have in mind. You asked what is more important than artistry. But my point is that we do not have to make a choice, simply because there are players who offer efficiency AND beauty.

    About the Chelsea/Liverpool fixtures, no, thank you very much. I rather watch Segunda than this match-up.

    About what is the pinnacle of my mentality, here are some examples :

    1962 - Stadium Da Luz, Intercontinental Cup : Benfica versus Santos. One of the greatest exhibitions of beautiful game in history of football. Final score : 5 - 2 for Santos. Pele scored 3 goals, two of them after sliding through Benfica's defense like a knife through butter, and created another one after dribbling a la Maradona past 3 Benfica defenders to give Coutinho a perfect tap-in opportunity.

    1960 - Real versus Eintracht. I'm sure you know this one. Di Stefano and Puskas kicked ass.

    1974 - La Manita : Real - Barca 0 - 5. Cruyff scored a goal after leaving 3 Real defenders on their asses and created other 3.

    PS : Zidane never dominated in a similar manner a match of such magnitude in his whole life. :p

    From the first one I saw only highlights, the other 2 I saw in full (I have them in digital format) so I can make comparisons in good conscience.

    Talk about games to watch, I recommend you any of those three.
     
  23. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    You see this is where you always fall down. You lurch from extreme to extreme, never occupying the middle ground that most discussions actually fall within.

    From this list Overmars, Cocu, Matthaus (he was a liability in the last ten years), Scholl, Paulo Sousa, Micoud, Mendieta and Nakata are simply laughable.
     
  24. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    I was only asked to name 20 better players. Even if you personally disagree with the ones you chose to highlight, it still leaves 44 players who were better than Zidane over the last decade. Thanks for playing.
     
  25. Walter3000

    Walter3000 Member+

    Apr 8, 2004
    gainesville, Florida
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No I think he is saying those 6 are so laughable no time is needed to argue the merits of the list before completely crossing off those to begin with.
     

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