Yura M to Randers (Yank abroad?) [R]

I think FIFA rules are very simple - player is capped if he played official game for senior team, and official means FIFA competition - WC, regional championship and qualifiers. Friendlies don't count.

http://js.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/01/24/fifastatuten2009_e.pdf

18 Change of Association
1. If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new
nationality, or if a Player is eligible to play for several representative teams
due to nationality, he may, only once, request to change the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches to the Association of another country of which he holds nationality, subject to the following conditions:
VII. ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY FOR REPRESENTATIVE TEAMS 69
(a) He has not played a match (either in full or in part) in an official
competition at “A” international level for his current Association, and at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition for his current Association, he already had the nationality of the representative team for which he wishes to play.

 

please read the WHOLE rule.

also note that in the first part it says "official competition at A international level" (this is the WC/WC Qual/GC/Euros/etc) and in the second part it only says international match in an official competition. now the second wording is a bit vague but it is obviously different from the first wording. it is basically meant to mean any and all "official" games for the national teams (including friendlies). the wording only excludes "non official" games like playing for Catalonia or the like in which even their friendly games are not "official" international matches.

so, basically like i said. to be eligible to switch to an association you have to meet TWO requirements. you cannot have played an "A" international for the team you currently represent AND you must have been fully eligible for the association you want to switch to BEFORE you played ANY official match (friendly or otherwise, NOT only an A international) for your current team.

 

Friendly is not an official competition, that's for sure, he was not capped today no matter how we read FIFA rule. he can play friendlies for Armenia 5 times a year and still can switch NT.

This part of the rule you are quoting

has nothing to do with the fact if he was capped or not today. It will only matter on Sept. 3rd when Armenia plays Ireland in the first Euro 2012 qualifier. If Yura has Armenian citizenship and plays at least a minute in that game - he is capped for life because he would pass both eligibility tests - official game for senior (A) team and citizenship.

 

look. i am not going to argue with you but dozens of football journalists disagree with you.

you are mistaking "competition" in the second part to mean "tournament" instead of "game" which is how it is meant. it is the reason the first part distinguishes "A International". "A Internationals" are the meaningful games in or leading up to "tournaments". "official competition" only means that it is an certified official FIFA match. that CAN be a friendly. those between certified Associations on official FIFA match days are "official competitions" in this sense, they even count towards the FIFA rankings. the second part is worded that way to exclude things like players playing for "unofficial" regional or ethnic teams in competitions (like Catalonia playing Agentina).

it is an entirely moot point anyway because in a few weeks Yura will play in the Euro qualifiers and he will be done with the USMNT under both the first and the second part of the rule.

this would of course be easier if FIFA knew how to write something clearly and concisely.

 

Well, he might wait till USMNT coach situation is resolved hoping for a new coach who could summon him.

 

yes. it does. if i could find the article by the british journalist i read a few years ago i would link to it but he went over this very clearly. while the rule isn't the clearest written thing he interviewed FIFA officials and went back and found examples that the 2nd part of that said "official competition" and the 1st part said "a international" to make a clear distinction between the two. one refers to the WC/WC Qual/Euros/Euro Qual/GC/Confed Cup/Etc, that is the A International in part 1. the other just refers to any "officially sanctioned match" between two member associations. THAT DOES INCLUDE FRIENDLIES. (they even get FIFA ranking points for these). now the journalist if i recall asked why they didn't make it even clearer and got some BS answers (he figured it was to leave the rule just vague enough to manipulate or allow to be manipulated if need be) but he then went on to give examples of players who had played for team A in a friendly (but an officially sanctioned one between two member associations) before they were fully eligible for another team and that this disqualified them for that team.

i would have never known any of this if i hadn't read that article. i will continue to look for it but i am coming up blank. i may have actually read in in a magazine or paper so that might be why i cannot find it.

 

Journalists are the journalists, facts are the facts - there are players who played friendlies for A teams of one country and then switched NTs, Jones is the best example of that, Edgar Castillo too.
Can your journalists beat that? What kind of murky arguments can they produce?

 

BOTH OF THOSE PLAYERS WERE ALREADY CITIZENS OF THE US PRIOR TO PLAYING THE FRIENDLY AND THUS QUALIFIED UNDER PART TWO.

why is that hard to understand. as long as you are fully eligible for both teams when you first play a game, friendly or otherwise, then you can switch to the other team you were eligible for up until you play the A International.

Yura is NOT a citizen. he was NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THE US when he played a friendly (an "official competition") so he does not meet part two and thus cannot be eligible for a switch to the US, A international or not.

 

There is no way back for Yura. If he even thought about it he would authomatically become a major traitor to all his compatriots. Rules or no rules, it's over. Forget it.

 

1. Yura can switch NTs until he plays an offical A-team game for Armenia.
2. Jermaine Jones who played 3 friendlies for Germany could switch his NT no matter if he had US citizenship before those friendlies or after.

FIFA rule is very straighforward, let's take three possible scenarios:

1. Player has dual citizenship, plays official A-team game for country A - he is capped to A
2. Player has dual citizenship, plays friendlies or offical youth games for country A - he is not capped and is free to switch to country B
3. Player has only country A citizenship, plays friendlies or offical youth games for country A - he is not capped and is free to switch to country B when he gets B citizenship

 

look dude. you are simply wrong and cannot read.

riddle me this batman. why does it say "A International" in part 1 and not in part 2 if they mean the same thing?

obviously the do not mean the same thing, obviously they are worded differently because they mean different things.

it clearly states that in order to switch you have to have met TWO requirements.

REQUIREMENT 1: you cannot have played an A International for your current team.

REQUIREMENT 2: you have to have been a citizen/fully eligible for the team you want to switch to when you play your VERY FIRST "official competition" for your current team.

now you seem to think the "A International" in requirement 1 is the exact same thing as "official competition" in requirement 2.

IT IS NOT THE SAME THING OR IT WOULD SAY THE SAME THING.

why is that hard to understand?

A International = WC/WC Qual/Continental Competition (Euro/ACN/etc) and qualifying for said/Confed Cup and youth versions of the same.

Official Competition = anything else that is an officially sanctioned game between two member associations that is NOT one of the above. THIS WOULD INCLUDE FRIENDLIES because frankly there isn't any other type of game at the senior level that isn't one of the above. at the youth level this would be friendlies some of which are "tournaments" like the Milk Cup

it is simply stupid to think that "A International' and "Official Competition" mean the exact same thing but are just worded differently in two different sentences. they are specifically worded differently because they mean two different things. this is basic language and reading comprehension.

 

Thanks for clearing it up for us, Herr Blatter, may i kindly suggest that you add this explanation to FIFA Statuses document so we won't have to exhaust our brains (or whatever we have under this name) trying to interpret your documents?

 

Hmmm... had Jermaine Jones played in anything but a friendly prior to FIFA making the one-time exception? Because he was cap-tied to Germany until FIFA passed that ruling.

 

This thread got all high school bitchy.

 

He was cap-tied because of his age, then FIFA removed age limit for NT switch and added "official international game for A team level" criterion, that's why Jones was able to switch countries.

 

Well, I saw this coming. It's pretty hard to blame Yura given his age and the difficulties of getting American citizenship.


I find the "but Armenia sucks" argument to be especially pathetic. I expect all those posters who use that argument also applauded Giuseppe Rossi, Michael Hoyos, Neven Subotic, et al when they chose to play for higher-rated national teams. I'm sure that Movsisyan feels an affinity to the US and to Armenia. All things being equal, he probably would have chosen the US, but at the same time I don't doubt that representing Armenia also holds appeal to him. Unfortunately, all things aren't equal and he wouldn't have been eligible for us for a long time. These things happen.

 

He had played in an official youth competition.

 

Ah... thanks.

 

Yura's playing for Armenia for one reason. It'll take at least 3 more years to get US citizenship.

So regardless of all of this nonsensical eligibility argument................it's over. Stop it.

In fact, seeing as he's not a US citizen.................he's not even a Yank Abroad.

 

I did mean "unlike".


Sloppy mistake.

 

Yank or not, he scored today.

 

Which is the worst part about all this. He would be pretty much inarguably one of the top 4 US strikers right now. He'd be rated anywhere from 1 to 4 based on how you rate Altidore, Buddle, and Gomez.

 

Which is also why this thread probably will never die...
.

 

Until he gets his citizenship. He's currently in the process, and getting capped by Armenia won't change that.