Youth Yanks Abroad, ‘01-‘04 YOBs (and younger): 2019/20 Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by TheFalseNine, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I don't agree as I think he improved significantly while moving from the Championship to the EPL but let's take your assumption at face value.

    In 2013/2014, Yedlin was
    • MLS Rookie of the Year Finalist
    • MLS All-star
    • US Soccer Young Male Athlete of the Year
    • Auto-starter for an MLS conference semi-final
    • Acquired by Spurs for $4m
    Without doing deep research, I don't think Reggie Cannon has many of these accolades although i'm hopeful that he gets transferred to a major league team shortly and shows us what he can do against higher level competition (as yedlin has shown his ability to do over the last three years).
     
  2. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member

    Mar 9, 2012
    Reyna can afford to play with more method because of this size and strength. He doesn’t get knocked off the ball much.

    Pulisic is who he is. His first few steps with the ball are world-class. You can count the guys who compare to him in that department on one hand. I don’t think that’s hyperbole. He’s not much better than average at anything else, but the ability to carry the ball into places the defense doesn’t want you to have will play on almost any squad.

    Pulisic is not Donovan, who was a legitimate soccer genius. But I don’t think his style of play necessarily suggests that he has a low IQ. He cannot be your fulcrum, your central creator because he doesn’t have the physical qualities to be one. He’ll make you scramble consistently with his runs cutting across the face of goal. There’s a lot of value in that.

    Pulisic + Reyna + Sargent with Weah in a more two-way role looks like it could be symphonic.
     
  3. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Where is the proof that non-elite MLS players can compete at the international level?" - Stuart Holden, Geoff Cameron, Reggie Cannon, Nick Lima, Pablo Mastroeni, Jackson Yueill, Sebastian Lletget, Alejandro Bedoya, Paul Arriola, formerly Jordan Morris, etc.

    There hasn't exactly been a shortage of decent to solid MLS starters to hit. It's definitely the more reliable option than a youth player, empirically, and almost by definition. Youth player call-ups have been very volatile.

    It's one thing if you're productive or look like you belong against grown men in friendlies like a Richards or Reyna. You can know where to break the rules.

    But Ledezma is not taking the more challenging road right now playing in the Dutch Eerste Divisie and not producing. That's why he's not warranted a PSV 1st team promotion, not because their standard is tough. Llanez has done it against nothing but kids. Someone posted the track record of players who've been productive at that level - it's not impressive. Their path to caps is rather straight-forward, seemingly. And we've seen how many wasted caps being impatient has led to.

    Promoting youth players to the senior national team is a fool's errand as a general strategy vs. solid MLS players. This kills your depth. You're asking to miss the WC at the slightest attrition.
     
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  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    many of the names you list were elite MLS players who were coveted by major league teams but in any event, you misunderstand my point: it’s not that MLS players can’t be effective internationals but that there’s no “proof” that they’re good enough. We could pull a long list of elite academy players who did become successful international players and we’ve recently seen that many of the MLS names are below the Ralston line.

    If we’re not choosing players who are high probability to be elite (is, a long list of major leaguers), we shouldn’t create false barriers that advantage one set of minor leaguers vs. another.
     
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  5. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Thank you for saying what I wanted to in a much more articulate fashion
     
  6. Tactical Hipster

    Dec 23, 2014
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  7. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
  8. Tactical Hipster

    Dec 23, 2014
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    it was the other way around wasn't it? Vint went from Man U to Atlanta.
     
  9. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    you are right, my mistake.
     
  10. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Can you expand on how taking a look at the following players over this year kills our depth, assuming they don't lock down a regular major league role?

    - Reyna
    - Otasowie
    - Lesdesma
    - LLanez
    - Richards
    - Vassiliev

    Let's assume that only a couple of them are ready contribute but we're not sure who fits in best. Who are the quality depth pieces that would be killed if they missed a camp or two? Are they good enough to break through at PSV's non-tough standard?
     
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  11. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Guys who broke into world soccer more than 10 years ago are not currently with the team and it was a different world then.

    In all honesty, the players you listed have not proven anything. Lletget has never played well against anyone but the 2nd tier of CONCACAF. Cannon has played one game against a good UEFA team and got roasted repeatedly and was lucky not to get a red card. Lima has not even started against anyone, just B sides from central america. Arriola has never scored against a top 40 team. He barely registers on the score sheet at all, with his best contribution being an assist versus Jamaica (FIFA #45). Yueill has never played against a Top 50 team that cared.

    Morris is the only MLS guy with a goal against anyone better than Jamaica. He might be the one MLS guy that has come through in the past four years. Of course, he got his first cap when he was an amateur. So, he is not the best example of "lets not call in youth players too early it might ruin them".

    The USMNT schedule this year was pretty cupcake. We played one competitive game against good competition and maybe two against below average competition. We played some friendlies against teams that tried sometimes. Chile tried I would say, Ecuador a bit, Venezuela tried, and Uruguay did not. None of the players you listed did anything of note in the Chile or Venezuela games. Nothing of note in the GC Final or game in Toronto.

    If Reyna is around the first team in Dortmund, he is in the pool for the USMNT.

    Everything everyone is saying about Reyna, Ledezma, etc. they said about Hyndman and Parks a year ago. But those players came in to MLS and were some of the better players. Fringe EPL guys are consistently coming into MLS as TAM and DP players. If a player is not one of the best in MLS, I doubt he would be substantially better or at all better than anyone in the pool in the first team of a top 40 club, probably deeper.
     
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  12. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    This is the question though. Is the USMNT going to continue with the moneyball approach of using January Camp to get a competitive advantage or not? If it is, we will continue to see Cupcake heavy rosters going forward. If it is not, then more European players can be blended in than in 2019.

    In a normal set up, one not trying to leverage MLS availability, then there is no problem bringing in anyone and giving them time in camp.
     
  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Shrug. It seems Berhalter is using the current January camp to look at a lot of young and fringe players.

    I don't think anybody should have a problem if he brings in some youngsters to the Euro-based friendly in the spring. Even as young as Reyna, who does seem to be "on the verge."

    If you're good enough, you're old enough.

    And you don't know if a youngster is good enough unless you actually give him a chance to prove it.
     
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  14. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
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  15. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Johan Gomez had a stress fracture in his foot in late December, and had to have surgery. It seems like he's now working his way back from that injury.

     
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  16. autobus39

    autobus39 Member+

    Jun 28, 2006
    Scranton, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #541 autobus39, Jan 18, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
    Gio Reyna and Indiana Vassilev both made their respective league debuts today.

    I thought Reyna played well. He played a roll in Dortmund's fifth goal intercepting a ball deep in his defensive half, stepping past the press and hitting a forward pass for what would be a second assist in MLS.





     
  17. autobus39

    autobus39 Member+

    Jun 28, 2006
    Scranton, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. autobus39

    autobus39 Member+

    Jun 28, 2006
    Scranton, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Atlanta is sending three of their U-19s to train with Aberdeen from Jan. 18 - Feb. 1

    Jordan Matthews - 2002 left back
    Marzuq Puckerin - 2002 goalkeeper
    Garrison Tubbs - 2002 center back
     
  19. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Oliva scored this weekend.



    As did Konrad, but Konrad is now coming off the bench with the U-19's because he didn't sign an extension.



    Kelman also scored.



    Here were the highlights from Reyna's debut.

     
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  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The Reyna debut was somewhat expected. It was just a question of when.
    The Vassilev promotion to the first team has been a nice surprise. He's improved quite a bit over the last couple of years. They're both also, it should be noted, dual nationals.


    Also, some actual news on Xuxuh Hilton.
     
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  21. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Has he? I don’t know the answer, but find this to be something that’s often hard to know about.

    Whether it’s Otasowie at Wolves or Vasillev at Aston Villa, how do we know how good they are compared to the rest of our player pool? What we know is that these players have become among the best young prospects at two clubs that have bounced between the different levels of the English pyramid the last 10 years. Neither club is an established top club with much prestige. Do these clubs attract better talent to their academy than Philadelphia Union or Real Salt Lake? I think it’s an open question. We aren’t asking if Liverpool attracts better talent than those teams. These teams were second division clubs in the last few years.

    That’s why I’m always weary of making too much of these debuts at these types of clubs. If we were saying beforehand that the player was very good or has improved, I see no reason not to say it, but if we are only saying it because they are the best of a weak academy, how much does it actually matter? If they are playing every week in the Premier League, it matters, but if they get 2-3 token appearances and their career falls off because they were never any good, it clearly didn’t.

    I’d argue with Reyna it was the opposite. Anyone could see that Reyna was talented, but keep in mind that Borussia Dortmund hasn’t had a youth product go to their first team since Pulisic. I’m not well versed on all the players they’ve had in their academy since, but I suspect there were many highly touted young players. I certainly would not have expected Reyna to be the only one that would make it through, but the kid has produced extremely well at the U-19 level. He looks better there than he did with NYCFC youth teams, IMO. I think he’s a clear example of a player whose improved.
     
  22. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    BVB really have only had a small amount of prospects on German YNT rosters the past few years. A couple being GK’s, one defender who’s still on their U19 team and a forward that isn’t doing anything at Onsabruck.
     
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  23. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member

    Liverpool
    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Vassilev has touched the ball maybe 3-4 times in both his appearances losing 2 of them. His notable contribution was an off the ball run. We don't know if he'll be a Clint Dempsey or a Johan Smith yet until he gets consistent minutes down the stretch.

    Gio is different. Gio in his debut was poised, took players on, made the right passes, and looked like he belonged. Gio is the closest thing we have to someone who's a sure thing to be at the level or better than Pulisic. Even Dortmund coaching staff and inside scouts are saying that.

    The other problem we have with Vassilev is that Villa releases no film so the only impressions we can get are the appearances he makes with the first team which for me have been a 5/10 for him outside of the one nice off the ball run.
     
  24. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    My opinion/hopes for Vassilev jumped at the beginning of the season when it appeared that Villa valued him higher than Jacob Ramsey, who I thought was the better prospect and has been with England U18 and U19s.
     
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  25. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you suggesting a player named Indiana won't be playing for the US?
     

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