Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? The best part about the "whining" by these youth clubs that are having "their players" poached by the MLS DA's, is that they most likely did the exact same thing to other smaller teams.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? Compete for what? MLS academies and local youth clubs have completely different agendas. MLS clubs are developing players to sign for their MLS squads, which will hopefully for them result in trophies and transfer fees. Local youth clubs are developing kids to win meaningless youth competitions...........and to get their kids to the NCAAs (and if they're really good, to professional academies). We should WANT the best American kids to get funneled into MLS programs. It will be a really good thing when MLS is "totally running the show." I actually expect that within the next 10 years, MLS will form their own "elite" youth league. That'll lead to a two-tier youth development academy ladder.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? I hope it happens but I don't hope MLS makes it happen in a vaccum. We need a two tier academy ladder but that ladder needs to be connected and not separate. I'm afraid that if MLS starts their own league above the standard Amateur USSF DA we haven't addressed what I will call our development gap. All Professional European and SA Academies are integrated to their professional teams with everything being done for the needs of the future professional player. I'm afraid this won't happen if MLS just leaves the DA system. I still am holding out hope that there can be a USSF/MLS agreement and partnership with clear standards that DA Teams have to meet so they can maximize the development and ultimate easy movement of elite players from USSF DA to MLS Academy. What form that infrastucture will ultimately take in my mind is the next big thing in our movement toward an integrated 'professional' development system. Professional in the sense that everyone is on board and knowledgable on the steps and movement for the elite player through that system. I hope we can have incentives for the USSF DA that are clear, significant, and productive. I hope ongoing discussions can make this happen sooner than later.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? I agree sudano, but I think were where headed is what your afraid of. As the MLS teams put more and more money in youth development there going to less and less be wanted to be told what to do. They will break off and it will be straight up competition for the best youth players in U.S.. Were going to take your best players and there is nothing you can do about it. There will be no working together. I hope I am wrong.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? I see both sides. If they cut and run then are able to recruit nationally for what they consider the best players I may not have such a big issue with this. I just think the USSF and their DA teams without direction on what MLS wants and needs in a player from a USSF DA team it just widens the development gap. We haven't addressed the issue on how players progress up the ladder to MLS teams. USSF DA's will just harden trying to hold on to their players for selfish reasons. Both entities working without cooperation. MLS will still have their mileage restriction and USSF DA still will have no incentive to develop players that MLS academies will want. I hope I am wrong. How about saying we need to separate and we need to talk about how our national development structure will be impacted. They can break it off and still want to communicate with our national association. Can't they? In a sense they aren't being told what to do but rather telling USSF what they need. Its a matter of semantics. Cooperation or Division.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? It's not MLS' job to give a rat's ass about non-MLS development academy teams. They operate a business, and business is war. The job of an MLS academy director is to get the most talented kids into his program, and develop them. I expect in the coming years that residential MLS academies will be aggresively competing with each other for the best youth talent in the country. It's the USSF's job to figure out what to do with the non-MLS academies. The local youth clubs are nonprofit organizations in the eyes of the US gov't......like say, the Cub Scouts or Habitat for Humanity. You read articles like the one in the original post, and these guys are trying to find a way to profit from their work. Which sounds great if you live in fairytale land, and not the real world. We don't need to worry how kids go "up the ladder" from local youth clubs to MLS academies. It's already happening. The MLS clubs have scouts, and those scouts recommend the best players to their academy directors. Those directors then approach those kids to join their program. End of story. When the academies are residential, it'll work like a charm. If the local youth clubs have a problem with that..........too bad. The kids aren't under contract in any way, shape, or form to their club. Just like they're not under contract to the 4H club or the NRA. And I could give a rat's ass if that means these clubs have a problem competing in the Development Academy in meaningless youth tournaments. MLS clubs are going to have facilities, coaches, etc. that those clubs shouldn't even try to compete with. That's a fool's errand.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? Not sure if other MLS clubs are similar, but Chicago has open tryouts as well.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? I'm sure a lot of MLS clubs do that. I know they're also doing MLS Sueno again. 1200 kids have signed up in Philly, Dallas, and Chicago.......with more than 500 others on the waiting list.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? I would think MLS would care how our countries systems develop talent that will ultimately be funneled into their system and try to positively influence it as much as possible. They can't cover the entire nation down to U6. Just not possible so they have to rely on the area beacons which are the nonMLS DA's. To say its a business is exactly my point. Companies meet with their 'suppliers' all the time to set expectations, develop specifications, try to establish incentives all the time. Seemingly competitors meet to establish partnerships that help both parties. I think we're talking about two different ladders. There's an internal ladder to the club which I agree is happening but their limited to their areas without Bradenton players who can't go to any MLS club. We need an all encompassing ladder that any player in the nation can go to any MLS club that wants them. That will help MLS dictate what they want in a player and non-MLS DA to now need to supply that type of player. That system does not now exist in this country. I'm hoping soon but its not now. If in fact MLS can recruit and have access to anyone they deem worthy this will then set up that national ladder of local clubs funneling to DA clubs to funnel to MLS clubs. That's how you cover our nation. Your point on residential and meaningless youth tourney are spot on. Once MLS gets residential and then can compete for ALL players nationwide then Non-MLS DAs now have a non financial incentive to provide what Professional Teams want. All that and I didn't use Rat's Ass Once. Woops.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? I agree on all points but how would this two tiered system work successfully?
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? -MLS Teams Establish some sort of Residential Training -USSF eliminate virtually all restrictions regarding HomeGrown Territories or Can't Sign Bradenton Players. Let any team 'sign' or train anyone from anywhere for any amount of time. International kids or domestic, the problems this presents will pale in comparison the problems it eliminates in our development of top players. -MLS/USSF DA sit down over multiple meetings and establish incentives financial or otherwise so each nonMLS DA will develop 1 or 2 players a yr that will progress to MLS. -Figure out a way for quality partnerships between 5-7 DA's per MLS team for training, presentations, etc. -Set standards down to U8s. -Change the Narrative to the development of the Professional Player.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? I feel strongly they will choose co-operation, not just at the youth level but because of scheduling issues etc with the senior team (National and MLS). Looking over the landscape now it does appear that there is a seperation with some of the MLS youth teams from most non-DA. This should be welcomed and I feel will continue to grow as MLS teams become residential, which they will. That said I do see that local non MLS Academy teams and their affiliate MLS teams are starting to co-operate and allow the better kids to find their way to the MLS youth teams. This is good to see. Eventually there will be more MLS Academy specific events(not just the SUM Cup), maybe even a Fall league, but I also feel they will continue to be part of the DA structure. The benefit for them amongst is that they continue to see other players that might catch the eye, and it is simply a way for them to play weekly games without the cost. One interesting sidebar for me, is what will parents paying local USYS club coaches make of all this? If they see all the best players becoming involved with MLS Academy's and DA clubs and by extension eventually the pro teams and better Colleges, will we see a re-structuring of the pay to play model at the lower level, with parents knowing very early on that all of the development action is not where their kid is at?
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? Pay for play isn't going anywhere, anytime soon, for non-MLS develoment academy teams. In fact, due to the increased travel costs, etc.............I wouldn't be surprised if the fees increase. Where do people think all of the money to operate these teams comes from? At no point in time is it going to fall out of the sky. Sunil Gulati isn't going to become the Oprah of US soccer, and start dumping cash on these clubs every year ad infinitum. And this notion that MLS clubs are going to open their wallets and support these teams is also fanciful at the moment. Maybe that'll happen in the future. We'll see.................but I doubt it.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? Pay for play for non-MLS teams particularly will not go away. The only way right now for a any young player to have access to the organized game of soccer is with pay to play. I know there are rec programs and such. We need to promote parents and kids to buy their own ball and go play so pay for play later on will minimize the impact later on. I know pay for play is here for now as players move up but hopefully we can chip away at the edges. Youth soccer is big business and both MLS and Corporations need to be in youth soccer to flourish. I'm hoping with the advancement of the game there is more money out their than I even think is there.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? I hope Bobby is true to his word! If he is, than my clubs in for a big credit! Whitecaps FC Residency select fourteen from Coquitlam Metro-Ford That number doesn't include the 4 we've already put into the residency over the last 3 years.
Re: Is it time for youth transfer fees in the US? And I read somewhere Toronto is partnering with 30 top clubs in Toronto Metro to work together with players ultimately being funneled to Toronto FC and their new 20 Million dollar facility. I don't know the specifics of these relationships but it can be a win-win partnership. I'd love to see more of this in MLS.
Training compensation for first pro transfer before the age of 23. Show me the money. According to FIFA... A team that educated a player as a youth is awarded a compensation for that education, when a player is transferred for a fee. For instance in the multi million Robben transfer from PSV to Chelsea his former club FC Groningen received a portion of that transfer fee as an education compensation. Do American schools rate this? If so, then it would be a stimulus for Colleges to attrack the best talents and set up contacts with Europe. FC Groningen received several 100.000s € from PSV out of the Chelsea deal. What does this mean for Development Academies, Private or Public schools, College? Full document at http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/66/98/97/regulationsstatusandtransfer_en_1210.pdf Training compensation 1 Objective 1. A player’s training and education takes place between the ages of 12 and 23. Training compensation shall be payable, as a general rule, up to the age of 23 for training incurred up to the age of 21, unless it is evident that a player has already terminated his training period before the age of 21. In the latter case, training compensation shall be payable until the end of the season in which the player reaches the age of 23, but the calculation of the amount payable shall be based on the years between the age of 12 and the age when it is established that the player actually completed his training. 2. The obligation to pay training compensation is without prejudice to any obligation to pay compensation for breach of contract. 2 Payment of training compensation 1. Training compensation is due when: i. a player is registered for the fi rst time as a professional; or ii. a professional is transferred between clubs of two different associations (whether during or at the end of his contract) before the end of the season of his 23rd birthday. 2. Training compensation is not due if: i. the former club terminates the player’s contract without just cause (without prejudice to the rights of the previous clubs); or ii. the player is transferred to a category 4 club; or iii. a professional reacquires amateur status on being transferred. 44 ANNEXE 4 3 Responsibility to pay training compensation 1. On registering as a professional for the fi rst time, the club with which the player is registered is responsible for paying training compensation within 30 days of registration to every club with which the player has previously been registered (in accordance with the players’ career history as provided in the player passport) and that has contributed to his training starting from the season of his 12th birthday. The amount payable is calculated on a pro rata basis according to the period of training that the player spent with each club. In the case of subsequent transfers of the professional, training compensation will only be owed to his former club for the time he was effectively trained by that club. 2. In both of the above cases, the deadline for payment of training compensation is 30 days following the registration of the professional with the new association. 3. If a link between the professional and any of the clubs that trained him cannot be established, or if those clubs do not make themselves known within 18 months of the player’s fi rst registration as a professional, the training compensation shall be paid to the association(s) of the country (or countries) where the professional was trained. This compensation shall be reserved for youth football development programmes at the association(s) in question. 4 Training costs 1. In order to calculate the compensation due for training and education costs, associations are instructed to divide their clubs into a maximum of four categories in accordance with the clubs’ fi nancial investment in training players. The training costs are set for each category and correspond to the amount needed to train one player for one year multiplied by an average “player factor”, which is the ratio of players who need to be trained to produce one professional player. ANNEXE 4 45 2. The training costs, which are established on a confederation basis for each category of club, as well as the categorisation of clubs for each association, are published on the FIFA website (www.FIFA.com). They are updated at the end of every calendar year. 5 Calculation of training compensation 1. As a general rule, to calculate the training compensation due to a player’s former club(s), it is necessary to take the costs that would have been incurred by the new club if it had trained the player itself. 2. Accordingly, the fi rst time a player registers as a professional, the training compensation payable is calculated by taking the training costs of the new club multiplied by the number of years of training, in principle from the season of the player’s 12th birthday to the season of his 21st birthday. In the case of subsequent transfers, training compensation is calculated based on the training costs of the new club multiplied by the number of years of training with the former club. 3. To ensure that training compensation for very young players is not set at unreasonably high levels, the training costs for players for the seasons between their 12th and 15th birthdays (i.e. four seasons) shall be based on the training and education costs of category 4 clubs. This exception shall, however, not be applicable where the event giving rise to the right to training compensation (cf. Annexe 4 article 2 paragraph 1) occurs before the end of the season of the player’s 18th birthday. 4. The Dispute Resolution Chamber may review disputes concerning the amount of training compensation payable and shall have discretion to adjust this amount if it is clearly disproportionate to the case under review. 46 ANNEXE 4 6 Special provisions for the EU/EEA 1. For players moving from one association to another inside the territory of the EU/EEA, the amount of training compensation payable shall be established based on the following: a) If the player moves from a lower to a higher category club, the calculation shall be based on the average training costs of the two clubs. b) If the player moves from a higher to a lower category, the calculation shall be based on the training costs of the lower-category club. 2. Inside the EU/EEA, the fi nal season of training may occur before the season of the player’s 21st birthday if it is established that the player completed his training before that time. 3. If the former club does not offer the player a contract, no training compensation is payable unless the former club can justify that it is entitled to such compensation. The former club must offer the player a contract in writing via registered post at least 60 days before the expiry of his current contract. Such an offer shall furthermore be at least of an equivalent value to the current contract. This provision is without prejudice to the right to training compensation of the player’s previous club(s).
Re: Training compensation for first pro transfer before the age of 23. Proteo, between starting a blatant troll thread, and starting a thread based on a question people are already talking about only about 4 threads down from your own, you're off to a real bad start in this forum.
Re: Home-Grown Players They may be upset to lose him but should be paid compensation by Club Tijuana. All "free" transfers for players under age 24 require the new club to pay the previous club compensation. The two clubs agree a reasonable fee or go to tribunal. If a player under age 24 is sold (ie, transfer fee paid) then no "compensation" fee is also paid. If the club is willing to sell for $1 then so be it. But if the player goes on a "free" the clubs can negotiate a compensation payment....FIFA makes the final ruling. I wonder if MLS ignores this, and as such so does FIFA (why bother themselves with some kid in USA....)??? IE, Two TFC boys seem to have signed for QPR recently (I can't find confirmation - and QPR said it didn't happen) but it was widely accepted TFC would get this compensation payment. These two players were u17 Canada internationals. Former CMNT'er Marc Bircham is a youth coach with Canada youth and QPR youth....thus the transfer.
Re: Home-Grown Players Stevie wasn't under contract with ChivasUSA in any way, shape, or form. This has been discussed ad naseum on these boards, but I don't think clubs are getting compensation for these types of players. FCD didnt' get compensation when Emerson Hyndman went to Fulham, for instance. It'll be interesting to find out if TFC got compensation for those players.
Re: Home-Grown Players Is there a way for teams to get compensation for academy players? Don't teams in Europe get some form of compensation for academy players that are taken by another team?
Re: Home-Grown Players There are mechanisms in place in Europe for transfers within Europe. There are also guidelines set by FIFA for what happens for transfers outside of Europe, but my understanding is that those are rarely followed and if there is compensation it is typically very nominal. For outsiders looking in to the US, they don't put alot of stock into what they view as a part-time approach to youth training, even though this training may be quite intensive. However, the rise of residential academies may change this view and it will become a big issue.
Re: Home-Grown Players I guess that ChivasUSA could file a grievance with Concacaf/FIFA, but they would have to show how much money they spent on the kid and how much they should get compensated, I am thinking a year or 2 of part time training may not fly. Also Clubs must have a contract or at least an offer for the player, Atlas lost some kid to Chelsea (or maybe a Portugal team) this summer because they did not offer him a contract before the U-17 World cup. They were pissed, but could do nothing about it.
Re: Home-Grown Players Kirsoccer makes a good point - until residential academies come into play this is probably a non-starter. Although Whitecaps have had residency for a number of years I have no clue if they were paid compensation by Reading when Gage moved there when out of contract. For example there is no mention of compensation in the official Whitecaps release: http://www.whitecapsfc.com/news/2011/02/residency-product-ethan-gage-signs-reading-fc
Re: Home-Grown Players I think in a lot of nations (like England) kids sign "youth contracts" that bind them to the club. So even though they can leave on a free transfer at any time, the club is compensated. No such contract exists between MLS clubs and their academy players until they sign a homegrown contract. There's really no difference between an academy player at FC Dallas or the Dallas Texans in this regard. I'm sure the Texans didn't get anything when Conor Doyle went to Derby, and I'm sure FC Dallas didn't get anything when Emerson Hyndman went to Fulham. And just to complicate things, FC Dallas didn't give the Dallas Texans anything when they grabbed Vernon Bailey. I mean, the majority of players at MLS academies didn't start there, they're recruited from somewhere else. And MLS clubs aren't compensating anybody for those players? The Galaxy aren't giving Cal Odessey anything for Nathan Smith..............