Youth teams

Looks like we may find out this week: http://columbus.crew.mlsnet.com/MLS/coc/youth/juniors/

 

Not sure if anyone else is following this, but I just checked out the Crew Juniors section on thecrew.com, and I can not quite figure out what is going on.

A few weeks ago, the page said that rosters would be posted shortly (don't remember the exact date, but it has passed). I see no rosters on the site, just this:
http://columbus.crew.mlsnet.com/MLS/coc/youth/juniors/news.jsp

So does this mean they are just slapping their name on a Ambassador SC team? I thought this was going to be something bigger than that.

 

For what it's worth, it appears so.

Ambassadors is not holding separate tryouts. Ambassadors tryouts and Crew Jrs. tryouts are the same thing.

They are making a point of saying that current Ambassadors players are not guaranteed a spot. They're trying to get players from other clubs to come and try out.

Of course, if players at Ohio FC or OP or Blast or Thunder wanted to play for Erik Ekis they could have joined Ambassadors. "Most" practices will be at the Ambassadors fields under Erik Ekis, who's been there forever as a lot of you know.

Apparently the only difference will be that from time to time they'll train at various college fields under a local college coach, but it sounds like that will be the exception.

I don't for the life of me understand this approach. If they're starting a youth club, then they should start a youth club, not "unite" with a long-standing organization.

This is a half assed approach. I would have expected better. They're jumping feet first into local club soccer politics. I bet there are some local club coaches who are pretty steamed at the Crew seemingly encouraging kids to jump clubs. Don't get me wrong, Ekis is a top guy who turns out quality players. Nothing bad on hm at all, but it's not that simple. There's big money in coaching elite club soccer, and guys don't give up players to a rival and not get a little ticked.

How oblivious can they be over at Velma Ave to do it this way? They'll make a lot more enemies than freinds this way, and I'd bet that a lot of local talent will prefer to stay with their current club rather than play along with this power grab. Unbelieveable.

 

Eh, what's one more disappointment this season?

 

It's like I said in the original thread about this. If the Crew were actually serious about youth development they would have started a free program and went out and recruited players. Instead I'm willing to bet when no one responded to their calls to come try out for Crew Juniors and pay 1500 a pop, they attached themselves to an established local club instead.

End result, Columbus will be left behind in the new MLS once the rules change.

 

There's a thread on Matchnight about the GM/Commish forum where this topic came up, and Weurth basically says the Crew "has" to charge the same amount as other local club teams, and poor kids could get scholarships, but stingy Crew fans won't pay for them...

Youth club discussion begins about 3/4 of the way down the page

 

I like Jeff, so I'm not going to point out some of the inconsistencies in his post. And the part about "Friedel's kids" is just disturbing; the whole POINT of Crew Jrs. is not to find some kids willing to wear the shirts around at tournaments, but to provide top-notch coaching to youth players.

Well here's a hint: the kids at Friedel's PSA Academy are ALREADY getting intensive daily coaching from first-rate coaches. The MLS "youth movement" isn't aimed at kids like them. Why would that even cross your mind?

Their lack of knowledge and understanding of Elite Youth soccer is not surprising. It's not their thing. But they should have asked someone for advice . Me for example.

I would have told them to start slowly. Rather than announce you're starting a club and sitting back waiting for the doors to fall in from the hordes, you go out and talk to the coaches at the clubs. Get them on your side.

Tell them it's not your intention to steal their players (or their paychecks) to put some idiot team in MOSSL to beat everybody up. That's rubbish.

Make it a Summer only, Y League specific effort, and assure everybody that your only goal is to improve the players and then send them back to their clubs with more experience and more skill and more everything that can then rub off on their teammates. Everybody wins.

After a year or two, when you've got some teams, then maybe you consider some other approach. All they did here was put out a shingle that said "New CLub Starting, and we're beeter than you"

Well, those kids have been playing for Steve and Lesh and Erik and the rest since they were seven. They already think they're getting good coaching, and they're playing with thier freinds. They'r not going to run off the first time you show them some leg.

All of which someone could have explained to them if they hadn't assumed the already knew everything and blundered off like this.

There is a good way to do this, and several bad ways. They tried one bad way, and now they're trying another.

(As for these "inner city kids" that need their soccer tab picked up by Crew fans, pardon me but exactly who are they? If they're not already playing soccer and haven't developed some pretty advanced skill by the time they're U14's, it's never going to happen. The ship has sailed.

And if they DO have some talent or athletic ability (and aren't playing basketball or football instead) then some premier club is already carrying them. Done all the time. If you're good, you'll get picked up. Nobody is sitting around some steamy second floor apartment over a bodega at age 14 pining for the chance to give soccer a try.

With all due respect, the Crew didn't know what they were doing.

 

Would it have been better to convince Friedel to put his academy in Columbus, partnering with the Crew, and let that program grow?

 

I guess this is as much a question as a comment -- I'm assuming here, but do youth teams such as these have certain geographic boundries where they can pull their players from, or is this pretty much a get what you can where you can situation?

Because, to me, I'm not necessarily thinking 'inner city' specific, but there has to be some areas where there is more of a soccer base in place, where kids, parents, coaches, clubs, etc are established and in place. That's not where I'd like to see the club 'mining' talent, if you will. Find those places where the club system isn't as strong, and try to identify talent there.

I do agree with you, Bill, that nobody should be expecting a 13 or 14 year old to appear out of nowhere and suddenly be a force, but I also think there's a lot of doors being closed here when the Crew is charging $1,175.00 to play on their U9 squad. That's a lot of juice boxes.

 

Probably so, for the Crew. The problem is that an arrangement like that doesn't have anything that would interest Friedel.

He's got big money backing from adidas, among others, and is calling his own shots. Plus, he's bringing in players from around the world, not just the US. The Crew admittedly had to try and pass the hat - apparently unsuccessfully - to get thier hand on a few measley bucks. Friedel has a budget, just for construction, of over ten million dollars last I heard.

The Crew has nothing to offer him.

 

It works both ways. Ambassadors is really "WASA" Ambassadors, which is the Westerville area. Now you're certainly welcome to drive over from Dublin and join, but Dublin has Ohio FC and Ohio Premier.

As for the money, that's actually a little below the going rate but you don't know if that includes tournaments, uniforms and so forth.

For the last ten years I've easily shelled out twice that every year for Lefty to kick a ball around. It's obscene. You guys just wait til you have kids. It's a racket.

Which is part of the problem: even a "name brand" like the Crew can't just open the doors and have people come running with checks. These teams make big money and the kids and their parents are customers and like any business they fight for each one.

Let's figure the low end: team fees per season (Fall and Spring - we'll leave out indoor) at $500. Times lets say 16 players: $8000. Times the U9's, U10's, U11's, etc up through U18's, Boys AND girls: 20 teams times $8000 = $160,000. Per club, per season.

What are your expenses" Well, MOSSL will want $500 per team to play league. Then there's your gas to the practice field. Probably some copier paper. Other than that, you're pretty much pocketing the money.

Tournaments are separate: players may pay $75 each, or $1350. The tournament will want maybe $250 per team. So for each team you take out for the weekend, you clear $1100. And most likely you swung a free hotel room in return for sterring the club's booking.

These guys are not kindly old fathers waiting around for the Crew to show up so they can watch their clientele - their fat, rich chickens - wander over to Velma Ave. with their checkbooks.

These coaches are tough competitors and they don't see the Crew starting a youth organization as being a wonderful boon, a gift from the Gods on high, the beginning of a spectacular new era of soccer goodness.

It seems to me the Crew stepped into this like a virgin in a whorehouse.

 

Instead of this rule being talked about now by Garber and Co., something like "you get to keep and player who trained with your youth club for over two years," I'm thinking of something different. That rule gives clubs a little incentive to start youth programs, but if I'm a player, why do I want to play for that club? I've got a better idea to help get these MLS youth clubs off the ground, make this the rule:

By 2015 (or some year), each club must have at minimum five players from their youth team in the first team.

That makes clubs work hard to make their program good so that those five or so players can contribute and star, not just sit and watch. On the flip side, for players, this gives them a big incentive to go to the MLS club's youth team; that is their best chance at making it to the top level.

Come to think about it, I can not even think of any downside to the idea (I'm sure there are some, please point them out). Maybe I should contact the league.

 

The only drawback I see, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the state of California is miles ahead of everyone else in youth player development, how could Crew, with limited resources, and seemingly wayward plans, bridge that gap prior to 2015? Seems unrealistic.

 

Like Bill said most of the big clubs around here may be based in an area but they pull from all over the city. Some clubs/teams pull from all over the state or even states. Ohio Premier, the girls club out of Dublin, regularly fields premier teams with girls from all over Ohio and even into other Kentucky and Indiana. Some times that is because the girls have moved and stayed with them but usually it's because someone came to their tryouts or they picked up someone from another team at a tournament. When I was playing club my team pulled from all over the state of Michigan and northern Ohio.

Club soccer is expensive and families in Central Ohio have known that for a long time...but it still pales in comparison to club hockey...not even remotely close.

 

Actually that promotes mediocrity (EDIT: I should have said could promote mediocrity). While it forces you to TRY to make kids better some kids that start at U9 or U10 just never improve, are passed up physically or get burnt out. The rule would probably hurt more than it would help, because what's the penalty if they can't? Disband the whole team?

 

Good points. It seems like the question you need to ask, from an organizational standpoint, is WHY are you getting into this?

It appears to me that they're doing it because MLS says they have to, not because they're necessarily committed to the concept. In any case, the execution has been badly flawed. They handled it as if it were another game or event: try and spread the word around, then sit back and be disappointed at the results. Blame the community for lack of response, and the fans for lack of donations. And finally, just get a local club to change their name. Declare victory.

DC and the F*re handled it much better. It takes some finesse, some political skills and some people handling. It appears very much like the Crew decided to do it from the top down, in a corporate fashion: have some meetings, get some big coaching names, issue a press release.

Shoulda just picked up the phone and called Rita Cook.

 

I'm curious to know if this is a bad Crew decision, or if this is a bad HSG decision. How are KC and Dallas handling their youth program upstarts? If this is just the way Lamar is going to cop-out of doing real youth development, that I won't be so upset with the Crew.

The thing the guys in the front office need to think about, is what is going to make the kids in this program really feel like they're a part of the Columbus Crew organization? That's what it's really about. It's not about catering to their needs, revolving locations for practice and such to make it easier for the minivan caravan. It's about branding and youth player development. You want these kids, and their parents, to become emotionally invested in the Crew at a higher level that the average fan could ever be. You want them to bleed yellow and black.

Hold all practices at Obetz. You have them use the same facilities that the big boys use so that there is a sense of awe about it. There shouldn't be any conflict, as weekday practices are during the day and the youth team would be in the evening. If there are going to be any fees, it should be something nominal, like $20 for processing paperwork and whatever, not hundreds or thousands. Have other perks, like each player that makes the squad gets a pair (or maybe 4) tickets to 8 home matches each season. There should be a team bus (black with yellow detailing) that identifies who they are for their arrival to games and tournaments that they are playing in. This team is supposed to be elite and connected one step away from the highest level of soccer in this country, make it feel like it is.

 

Say what you will about D2/D3 soccer in this country, but there are a few clubs that know how to do a few things right. The local USL2 club here, the Kickers has a huge youth program. Each youth soccer player gets a "pro pass," which allows them entrance into every home regular season soccer match. Of course, the parents have to come, which means they get a boost in attendance from youth players and parents that wouldn't have otherwise come and paid $7 youth and $12 adult.

The team and its players are really adored here and are very active in the community. Almost every player supplements their income by coaching a youth team and kids are excited to have professional players coaching them.

There are some more "elite" teams in the area, but Kickers is widely recognized as the most organized club program around and they offer the elite Super-Y teams for the Richmond area.

Oh, and they also have a team "RV/16 wheeler" that sleeps about 20. Local colleges, youth teams and the pro team take it to away games and tournaments. Its pretty cool.

 

I wonder what the impact on the Chicago Sockers/Chicago Magic (someone told me that either Magic folded or joined up with the Sockers...anyone know) has been because of the Fire teams.

If I were starting up a youth team for the Crew I would start with a few teams U9-U12 and build from there. The fact that they are making a foray into the older age groups is what's really going to fook them. Although you can't do any better than the u-18 Ambassador team they have. I think they have the longest run of state titles of any one team EVER in the US.

I agree with having them train at Obetz. You should expose them to the pros and their training grounds as often as possible. When we were in Europe that was one of the biggest things I took away from it. The youth teams all trained at the main training complexes They didn't necessarily use the big boys fields but they had access to all the same resources. Ajax was a really good example of this. Their youth program has long been considered one of the best in the world. Talking with their coaches and the youth players was really an eye opener for a lot of the coaches/parents that had no idea the way they trained and played in Europe.

 

I'm very familiar with the Kickers program and the people who started it years ago. Got stinking drunk with them at a USISL owners meeting a million years ago.

The thing is, all that didn't happen overnight. It was a very gradual process. And they did it in cooperation with, and with the full support of, the local clubs, not in competition with them.

And they went the SUper Y route, just like DC and the F*re did, which makes a ton of sense. In fact, it makes even MORE sense in Central Ohio than almost anyplace else, because OSYSA, a USYSA organization, is so strong and well run and well liked that when US Club came into being a few years back everyone said "Who cares?". UNlike, say, Ohio North where virtually all the premier clubs ran like scalded cats. They hate Ohio North (the USYSA setup) and couldn't wait to leave.

But in Ohio South (Columbus to the KY border) there are very few US Club carded players. Super Y is a US Club affiliate.

And since dual-carding is allowed, you do what DC did: start a Super Y club. They play a short season that is in minimal conflict with their regular clubs, the players don't end up competing against their old clubs and they can continue to play for the clubs they've been with since they were little.

It's not complicated, the clubs accept it, even embrace it. Their best players get additional top level experience, but they get to keep them.

Like I said, a lot of people could have explained it to them. Now all they're doing is putting a team into MOSSL Blue. Big freakin deal.

 

Zilch.

The Fire did what the Crew did, which is attach its name to an existing club. Had no effect except that now that club was wearing red.

Magic and Sockers are separate clubs and thriving. Still a duopoly in Chicago area although Chicago Wind is threatening to join the party, assuming that the Wind can keep its strong younger teams together during the high school years. Eclipse is also beginning to make a hint of a noise, although it's a lot further off. But given that Eclipse is now the dominant girls' program nationwide, Eclipse is worth watching.

 

Sure, but I doubt that this actually makes the kids better players. We already play more games in U.S. than the rest of the world, and train less. The Super Y approach would only seem to exacerbate that trend.