so over in Yanks Aborad someone started a serious (thus far) thread on the differences between MLS and Europe. One of the things I mentioned was the lack of youth acadamies for MLS Clubs. I've been playing around with an idea for a little while now and wanted to share it and see what people thought of it. My idea is for each MLS Club to have a youth academy tied into local high schools and colleges. Once a year (perhaps summer), Kids entering their freshman year of highschool get the chance to goto an extended training camp with their local MLS Club. MLS would take the top 50 kids and incubate them in a youth academy. At the highschool level, During the school year, kids would practice 5 times a week and participate in a youth league with the rest of MLS during the weekends (or maybe not - travel would be crazy). It would shut down during the extreme months (say...Nov 15 - Feb 15) and then kick back up for the spring semester. During the summer they kick up the practice and maybe even participate in youth tournaments. During the school year, the club would be on top of these kdis to make sure their school work is up and their grades are up. They would provide tutoring when neccasary also. And if a kid's grades or school attendance drops below a certain level, they wouldn't be allowed to train until they fixed it. Once these youth kids graduate highschool they would be given a choice. You can graduate from the program and fight for a professional contract from the club, or they can continue on with the academy and attend a local college full-time that the club would have a relationship with, and be a part of the Club's reserve team. But choosing this path means they would not be allowed to participate with the first team. The MLS Club would pay for everything the student needed to attend the school. From books, to lodging, to food, to tuition. But the whole idea is to get kids from the local city to be the driving force behind the club. From MLS' standpoint, their loyalty would goto the club first, and everythig else 2nd because MLS would be giving them their chance. After 4 years, you would have 200 fulltime acadcemy students. After 5 years, some of those 50 will choose to become professional members of the club, others will decide they aren't ready to crack the first team and continue to get their education while training with the 1st team ad playing reserve matches on weekends. I think cost would be fairly prohibitive at this point, but hopefully with all these SSS popping and Adidas fully sponsering the league it might be possible. So what do people think?
In an ideal world this is a good idea. However, in this world here are some issues that you'll probably have to deal with. 1. How are you going to pay for it? 2. Unless the Youth Academy is a completely seperate organization from the Pro team, the participants lose their eligibility for at least college and maybe high school. 3. You've just alienated all of your local youth clubs. Who are also one of your bigger targets for group and season ticket sales. Again, you have some great ideas. But I think we have some unique situations in this country that prevent us from copying things that are done in other countries like this.
1. I have no idea. But Adidas is setting up a reserve league, hopefully they could help MLS set up youth academies. Or perhaps the clubs could fund it themselves once they start getting more SSS. 2. Well the idea is to not let them play in highschool, but to develop them with the idea of getting them ready for professional soccer. Why would they lose their elgibility? I mean the kids out of Bradenton play college soccer and that program is associated with a fully funded soccer organization, the USSF. I would think if a kid decided he wanted play for a university he'd be able to if he left the program. Have I included something that would be against NCAA rules? 3. I'm not sure I understood this. MLS would have only 200 high school students from a big population center at any given moment. Why would this alientate the local youth clubs? I mean your talkign about clubs like the Sockers right?
You mean, something more detailed than this: http://dcunited.mlsnet.com/MLS/dcu/load.jsp?section=camps&content=academy When DC United has won MLS Cup in the past, a hastily put together youth squad was sent over to Europe to play in a youth tournament with several other teams sponsored by professional clubs...
USSF can fund this kind of thing because it is not classified as a professional sports organization... it is chartered to involve all levels of sport (including the Olympics)... the state ODP teams at the U23 level, which are a product of the USSF, are one method of getting around the ridicoulous restrictions on Division 1 college players playing out-of-season organized soccer (beyond the few games they are permitted in the spring by NCAA rules)... but any monitary assistance (potentially, even the "donation" of coaches time) to a youth organization could jeopardize eligibility for college... there has to be a fairly high barrier separating the Pro team from the youth... those in DC will bring up Harkes and the youth academy, but remember, he is a USSF assistant coach as well and I suspect that they have set it up so that is the hat he is wearing when dealing with the youth club... of course, all of these restrictions were established to curb abuse by the big 3 sports, but it is amazing the barrier that has been constructed... this hurts soccer quite a bit since the dream of most soccer moms is to see little johnny or judy playing in college, mostly for the education... European-style academies will never fly here unless the NCAA is destroyed (ain't gonna happen, unfortunately)... I think that the USSF has done a reasonably good job, given the severe limitations of such a centralized structure... rand
For the most part youth clubs in this country are very territorial. The top players are all going to come from a few clubs. If they leave those clubs, that is revenue that they aren't going to be receiving. So now you have clubs screaming that you are poaching players from their club. There are a couple of clubs that already have youth set ups (DC and Chicago). Put they are completely seperate organizaitons from the parent club. I think that's how they avoid the issue with eligiblity. Again, I think you thought this through and came up with some really good ideas. I just think that there are too many issues to overcome.
Eligibility in terms of (at least in Illinois) if you are playing on your High School team, you CANNOT play on your club team. A team just got kicked out of the playoffs here for using club players. So in your scheme it looks like during the year, these players are still with the club, yes? Where will they play? At this age, they need games and lots of games. And what happens to the skilled players from outside MLS cities?
I think if you limit academies to the 12 MLS markets, you are missing a great deal of talent and have a potential imbalance competitively as well. A team like Salt Lake might have a harder time finding players locally where LA, DC, Chivas, Metro, and Revs could field multiple competitive teams at each age level. The idea of a national academy league seems too ambitious for a country this size. Just put teams in the Super-Y league if the club wants to sponsor teams or partner with some of the area's elite clubs. I don't think we'll see acadamies as they exist overseas because of the NCAA. If we have 200 kids in a program nationally, a) there's no way it will be an accurate representation of who the best players are because it is more or less limited to MLS markets b) some will not sign up because college elligibility will be in peril, and c) the top youth clubs are already developing players. Here, you need the college option open because of those 200 kids, we'll be lucky if 4 or 5 make the big team at some point. I don't think many parents in this country would be willing to commit their kid's future to becoming a pro soccer player at 14 or 15. On paper, it looks like a fantastic idea. I don't think its practical in the case of the US nor do I think we need to take this approach simply because they do it this way in Europe. I got a chance to see youth teams from Tahuichi, Atlas, and Corbreloa of Chile at the end of last summer. They played against each other and US teams like the Region I ODP team, NJ's PDA and MatchFit, and St. Benedict's Prep HS. The pro youth teams featured players with far more soccer savvy and technical ability at 15, 16, and 17 years old. The US players held their own though and did a nice job playing to their strengths at while US players usually lack the flair of these sorts of players, given the state of our national team programs, it seems we are still able to match their ability to play the game absent academies like this. I guess if this were a potential ticket out of poverty like it is in other places around the world then academies make sense. Here, our players come from a different demographic generally and have other options.
A lot of great rebuttals here: I think the youth academies could be set up in such a way that they wouldn't part of actual competitions. It would be a high level of training. You can make a rule saying that anyone in the youth academy would NOT be allowed to play or train with the first team. Would this help alieviate the NCAA eligibility issue? or does the issue revolve around the fact that a professional soccer club runs the academy? I would also make the rule: if your in the academy, your not allowed to play on yoru highschool squad. Keep the mutually exclusive. The point of this academy is not to win games, but to develop soccer players. Rocketeer thanks for the link. Thats a summer camp DC United runs. They have a million of those exact type things for football. A famous one is the Elite 11 QB Camp that bring in the nations best QBs to be tutoured by some of the more famed QBs that have been produced. The question of what happens to the other kids is a good. And the only way to solve that is MLS expansion. But the idea here is to help the communities that are helping MLS Clubs. Its a very callous thought, I know. But if a community wants to get some of this them they should start the process of gaining an MLS Club. I have a huge problem with the youth clubs of this country. I've talked to some of my co-workers, one of them a coach who is very much in tune with the soccer scene at a youth level in the country. Especially in Pennsylvania. AC Delco is major club in Eastern, Pa and is located in the Philadelphia area. I believe that Bobby Convey is its most famed graduate. The problem is that this club only targets the well off kids. The kids who's parents know people and have the money to spare for the high prices of joining the club. Isn't it like this around the country? These clubs are missing a massive population of kids who can't afford the ODP or these high level youth clubs. My idea of MLS Academies is that they can bring in ANYONE regardless of money or politics. And when they do find an inner-city kid, they can help him. In fact, I would say that this would be a HUGE success in cities that have a large inner-city population. Why do you think so many of them go out for basketball? because its their ticket out of the harsh conditions they live in. Thats exactly what this would turn into also. An MLS Youth academy should be a lifeline for the Wayne Rooney's of this country. Guarenteed oppurtunity and a guarenteed education. Another potential byproduct would be the goodwill marketing. They call MLS a grassroots movement. Who can it be a grass roots movement when clubs don't always target local players? Think of it this way. If you started this now, in 7 years, every MLS squad would have about 10 players FROM the their home city. The locals will see that and realize, this is a team for us, FROM us. DC United would be a true representation of the city of Washington DC becuase at its heart would be players who were raised in Washington DC. Suddenly, the league has true, unbreakable connection with its cities. And thats all marketing really is, forging connections with your customer. Anyway, please keep the comments coming! EDIT- Just an example of what I'm trying to explain with my last paragraph. Every Winter and Spring, Scranton, Pa becomes painted Orange for the Syracuse Orange. Why is that? Gerry McNamara. Because he's playing for the Orange(men) this town loves the school's basketball team. People love watching their own sons and daughters play.
If I remember my Dempsey history correctly, once things started to get serious, he actually did go through what had to be an exhausting commute to the Dallas area. I may be wrong, but I thought I had read that.
Well I wouldn't let them play on a club if they were a part of the academy. However, is the competition really this important? As far as I can tell, Bradenton doesn't compete in any leagues or anything during the school year unless the FIFA tournament falls during that time. Why can't Youth Academies operate in this manner? Can't they get away with playing a series of friendlies with local youth and ODP teams? and once in awhile a taking an international trip for youth tournaments?
and this is the downside of these kind of academies. Because of the geographical size of America, your always going to lose kids.
gotcha. Let them scream, at least the player would have a choice. Soccer shouldn't be a sport for the rich.
This simply isn't true. Danny Jackson played for Leeds Academy. Danny Jackson also played at North Carolina. Every year players from former youth academies in Britain come over and play college ball. Andy Dorman's one of them. I see no reason why an academy structure couldn't be set up within NCAA guidelines and still eventually provide players to the parent club. MLS being single entity and able to distribute players in whatever fashion it sees fit, could simply make a rule that if a player who played on one of the MLS academy teams signs with the league, he automatically goes to the team he trained at academy with. Even if MLS eventually ditches SEM, this is something easily established in the CBA. As for how is it going to be paid for, that's not really an issue (MLS has got the money for it). The issue is getting a return on investment. There are differences of opinion on the feasibility of getting that return. But it is an investment: money paid in now in the hopes bringing in significantly more later on. Most investment by MLS is done on a National basis as MLS' structure does not encourage local investment. Countries and clubs with a hell of a lot less cash to splash than MLS do this. In fact it's appeal to many clubs is as a cheap way to develop players of a talent level you couldn't afford to buy later on. And as for 12 not being enough, while true, 12 is certainly a hell of a lot better than 1 which is what we have now. As for the current youth teams, that's an issue settled easily enough. There's plenty of low-cost and no-cost ways to make the situation mutually beneficial. Look, we don't ever likely win the World Cup without this, so if you're willing to throw your hands up and give up on one, be prepared to do the same for the other. Instead of saying "this can't work," the idea is to come up with ways to make it work, which Apoo is trying to do. At this point in our development as a soccer nation, I'm having trouble with finding a higher priority than this. If every single important faction in US Soccer has to have a seat at the table for this to work, well then that's what needs to be done.
I like Apoo's idea. There's no need for it to be expensive. OK, 50 kids per year is too much. IIf you're doing talent identification half decently, anybody after player #20 isn't a true pro prospect. So let's take 20 kids per year x 4 years for high school, plus some guys in the college program. Maybe 120 kids overall. So a team would need to underwrite training facilities (needn't be fancy), coaching, and presumably some transportation (for the poorer families) for 120 kids. Couldn't possibly be more than $500,000 per year per club. Could probably do it on half that much, in a pinch. A lot of money by MLS standards, but not much in the grand scheme of things. As a final note, it's not really accurate to talk about Chicago Fire running a youth development program currently. Chicago Fire runs a youth soccer club. It's a decent club but in no major respects is it different and/or better than two dozen other youth soccer clubs in Chicago. And in some respects it's worse; for example, at my son's age the Fire Juniors squad plays in the 6th division. That won't attract any good players at all, not even if the club dues are free (which they're not).
money, I think should be an advantage for MLS. In a certain sense, an academy would pay itself off because your raising kids to play for your club. So student's shouldn't have to pay anything. Its much like offering a scholarschip in college. EDIT- one cost you forgot John, cost of hiring Youth coaches. Thats a mistake I think thats hurting some of our younger players in MLS now. We got guys like Sigi Schmidt and Gregg Andruilus not only trying to save their jobs, but trying to develop 17 year old kids into good soccer players. Its too much to ask, I mean not even Sir Alex really does that. He has a host of youth specific coachs to train these kids, he just manages the youth program. you'll need more than one coach to handle 120 kids
Because in this case, the academy is the club. According to IHSA rules, you play on your high school team, or someplace else. Never both at the same time. As soon as your HS season is over, you can get your ISSA card back. And training without competition is just plain boring. No one ever gets better without playing in game--especially at this age. That is one of the reasons most top level coaches don't like HS and College soccer as a development program--the number of games are kept artificially low.
bradenton plays in tons of tournaments and friendlies... against older aged u.s. club teams, other international youth teams, foreign youth club teams, etc. they get plenty of game competition
Don't the various gymnastics organizations allow the private übercoaches like Bela Karolyi to co-exist within the NCAA framework? In other words, is there room for the negotiation here? Private sponsors like Nike run all sorts of basketball camps for the top high schoolers while still adhering to the eligibility requirements. But, I think this comes down more to ways to improve the college soccer than what happens before it and that's almost an impossible task.
European clubs have youth teams because no one else will develop players for them. In almost all European countries schools have nothing to do with sports except 2-3 weekly 45 minutes classes which consist of some warm-up and playing basket or futsal. In America schools have developed athletes for I don’t know how long. NBA teams have never had anything to do with training of youth, but you’ve still produced the best players. Why should MLS spend money on something the schools do for free? European clubs wouldn’t spend money on it either if someone else would do it for them.
the biggest complaint from NBA scouts about our high school athletes in comparison to their European counterparts is that the highscoolers lack skill. It my belief that high concentration on winning won't actually help develop a player all that much in comparison to an emphasis on developing technical abilities. Which is why I don't think highschool development is good enough. at every level you play the emphasis is on winning rather than getting individual players better. For that, you would need youth academies.
why can't MLS Youth teams do this? If they can get sponsorship from someone like Adidas, I don't think setting up competitions will be an issue. they can practice against travel soccer teams, the state youth squads...vacations over thanks giving, winter, spring and summer where you can fly anywhere for an international tournament.